Consultant appointment in NHS 3 months, 1 month private

LinkyPinky

You are queue-jumping. Treatment must be based on clinical need, not ability to pay. There will be people suffering more than you who cannot possible afford to pay. Private doctors have been trained by the NHS at public expense. The minute anything goes wrong it is the NHS which will have to deal with it. Don't do it. You are contributing to the probable loss of our NHS and it is just not fair.

Yes. Or at least 'own' it. Queue jumping should not be necessary, but as the NHS gets less able to deal with the demands placed on it, it is understandable that people will be desperate enough to do it. But have the decency to acknowledge that you (generic) are queue jumping, and don't pretend that you are freeing up a space in the NHS queue.

I agree Visgirl. Papworth presumably provides some of the best training in the world and most of them return to their countries of birth.

Visgir1

GR 15
Yes the original training is done oversea, but the NHS pays for advance training in a lot of fields so they meet UK standards.
In my field Cardiology, we enhance that by getting them UK qualified in specific, investigations.
I'm always impressed as many do this not in their native language, there are some very clever people in our oversea colleagues.
They also need to build on those skills, they don't dissappear off back to their country either. Lots just move around the UK for experience.
However, when they eventually do go home, they are very well qualified, get good posts some as Head of Departments.

When I had a stent inserted at Papworth, the consultant was Irish but all the junior doctors were foreign (mainly German).

GrannyRose15

growstuff

The argument isn't spurious. Two wrongs have never made a right.

Maybe private hospitals should only use overseas-trained staff.

I’m glad someone else agrees it is wrong that the NHS employs so many people trained overseas. To me it is a national disgrace that our so called world beating service has always relied on poaching staff from other, usually poorer, countries. And if my own experience is anything to go by most of the people who provide private treatment are also foreign.

I've never had experience of private healthcare, but the only surgical procedures I've had (two sections, stent insertion and breast lumps removal) have been carried out by foreign-born (but not necessarily trained) consultants. My current GP first trained in Nigeria.

GR 15
Yes the original training is done oversea, but the NHS pays for advance training in a lot of fields so they meet UK standards.
In my field Cardiology, we enhance that by getting them UK qualified in specific, investigations.
I'm always impressed as many do this not in their native language, there are some very clever people in our oversea colleagues.
They also need to build on those skills, they don't dissappear off back to their country either. Lots just move around the UK for experience.
However, when they eventually do go home, they are very well qualified, get good posts some as Head of Departments.

CPD

Visgir1

The NHS train staff constantly.
As one, we all have to maintain our personal development as part of out yearly appraisal. The manager has to ensure this happens. Otherwise they are failing the CPD.
A lot of money is allocated to courses
Completely wrong to suggest otherwise.

I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. Presumably the COD is only available to those who work in the NHS. My point was that alot of initial training is done overseas at someone else’s expense. It is completely wrong not to recognise this.

You are queue-jumping. Treatment must be based on clinical need, not ability to pay. There will be people suffering more than you who cannot possible afford to pay. Private doctors have been trained by the NHS at public expense. The minute anything goes wrong it is the NHS which will have to deal with it. Don't do it. You are contributing to the probable loss of our NHS and it is just not fair.

The NHS train staff constantly.
As one, we all have to maintain our personal development as part of out yearly appraisal. The manager has to ensure this happens. Otherwise they are failing the CPD.
A lot of money is allocated to courses
Completely wrong to suggest otherwise.

growstuff

The argument isn't spurious. Two wrongs have never made a right.

Maybe private hospitals should only use overseas-trained staff.

I’m glad someone else agrees it is wrong that the NHS employs so many people trained overseas. To me it is a national disgrace that our so called world beating service has always relied on poaching staff from other, usually poorer, countries. And if my own experience is anything to go by most of the people who provide private treatment are also foreign.

Fleurpepper

Rosalyn69

I don’t feel guilty if I go private. Why should I? I don’t understand the resentment. I have just seen a consultant on the NHS in 8 weeks for a non urgent problem. I was going to go private but my GP said the wait for that particular clinic was short.

I am surprised, honestly.

I have the funds, if need be, to see someone quickly if either of us needed to. Which happened a few years back for OH, and was very expensive.

Can you imagine anyone with a loved one, OH, child or grandchild- in dire need of seeing a specialist urgently, and have treatment, and watch them in pain and go downhill quickly, and there is nothing you can do? Surely you can imagine what this must be like- and that it could lead to a lot of pain, deterioration, even death - and resentment that the system is so unfair.

I agree. It's difficult to understand how anybody can be an "alright Jack" and not understand why others why others would resent that.

biglouis

I agree that it is up to you how you choose to spend your money. If others want to spend theirs on false nails and hair extensions thats up to them. Dont feel guilty about it for a moment. However bearing in mind how very envious and catty some people can be I would not share this information too widely with the likes of neighbours and casual aquaintances.

Most people think that everyone should have the right to good healthcare. I don't think they have the right to false nails and hair extensions. Quite honestly, I doubt if many people do decide to spend money on their hair and nails instead of their health. It's a silly argument.

The argument isn't spurious. Two wrongs have never made a right.

Maybe private hospitals should only use overseas-trained staff.

The argument that private hospitals don’t train their staff is spurious. The NHS doesn’t train all its staff either. Many people working in the NHS have been trained overseas.

I also agree that it is up to everyone how they spend their money. But I will challenge anyone who claims that their buying false nails and hair extensions helps other people by freeing up spaces for. . . .

Oh, wait. That doesn't work, as it is an entirely false equivalence.

I haven't seen any envy or cattiness on here either. People have repeatedly said that they understand why people pay, and are just taking issue with the 'doing it for others' argument, as it doesn't stack up.

I agree that it is up to you how you choose to spend your money. If others want to spend theirs on false nails and hair extensions thats up to them. Dont feel guilty about it for a moment. However bearing in mind how very envious and catty some people can be I would not share this information too widely with the likes of neighbours and casual aquaintances.

Rosalyn69

I don’t feel guilty if I go private. Why should I? I don’t understand the resentment. I have just seen a consultant on the NHS in 8 weeks for a non urgent problem. I was going to go private but my GP said the wait for that particular clinic was short.

I am surprised, honestly.

I have the funds, if need be, to see someone quickly if either of us needed to. Which happened a few years back for OH, and was very expensive.

Can you imagine anyone with a loved one, OH, child or grandchild- in dire need of seeing a specialist urgently, and have treatment, and watch them in pain and go downhill quickly, and there is nothing you can do? Surely you can imagine what this must be like- and that it could lead to a lot of pain, deterioration, even death - and resentment that the system is so unfair.

FP If they carry on as they are doing, the 'private' queue will be the same length as the NHS one!

Alison333 as was also stated upthread, going fully private is rather different, except that private hospitals don't train the staff they employ, the fact that major ops are not carried out in private hospitals, and when things go wrong patients are sent to NHS ICUs .

Also there are only 218 private hospitals, so the vast majority of people 'going private' are, like the topic of this thread, doing what the OP did and paying their £200 to see a consultant more quickly.

Rosalyn, perhaps if you read the thread you would understand the resentment.

I don’t feel guilty if I go private. Why should I? I don’t understand the resentment. I have just seen a consultant on the NHS in 8 weeks for a non urgent problem. I was going to go private but my GP said the wait for that particular clinic was short.

Lesley60

I was in chronic pain needing a hip replacement, I was on the NHS waiting list two years with still no end in sight.
My husband persuaded me to see someone privately which I was initially against with both of us being NHS nurses for over Thirty years, but I gave in and I had the operation in a week.

Oh I don't blame you, not one bit.

But I hope you agree that it should NOT be this way.

BTW If Dianne Abbot needed urgent treatment but could not get it due to long waiting list, would you also not blame her for going private? And state loudly that this is not fair or right?

The fact is, the system is currently designed to have this effect- and push people to go private and use up all their hard earned savings. And that it is just plain WRONG.

I don't think I made my point clearly. The people I've known who've gone private, don't pay for consultations in NHS hospitals and then get private ops in NHS hospitals.

Instead, they go to a separate all private hospital for the consultation and then have their op or treatment in the private hospital.

No, Thorntrees, you haven't upset me, anyway. As I keep saying, whilst I wish there were not a 2 tier system, I understand that there is, and that if someone has a debilitating, deteriorating or painful condition they would have to be saintly not to pay to get it fixed quickly if they can afford to do so. I am not saying that I wouldn't do the same if I were in their shoes, although given the chance I would vote to have one queue based on clinical need, as that would be so much fairer.

Neither am I saying that fully private care is taking from the NHS, (other than that the consultants are trained with huge subsidies from the public purse, but that is a different debate).

What I am saying is in reply to those who insist that paying to see an NHS consultant 'privately' so that they can join the queue faster (*behaviour which, as I say, I understand*) are doing so to 'free up a place on the NHS'. It doesn't, and it is dishonest to pretend it does.

Just to add, I do feel very sorry for those who need treatment but cannot afford it,the NHS is definitely in crisis.
However I cannot change the system single handedly and I realise how fortunate I am.
Hope I haven’t upset any one by my post.

I do object a little to some of the comments on this thread about queue jumping.
I had waited 3 months for a heart monitor to diagnose irregular heart beats. With no sign of an appt I had a private consultation and was recommended to have a 14 day monitor. This was paid for privately and was supplied by a private company who delivered and then collected it. It did not come from the NHS.
The follow up appt yesterday showed I had atrial fibrillation and I was prescribed an ant coagulation medication.
This will be provided by my GP as it would be if the diagnosis had been made at an NHS appt.
I do not think I have jumped any queue but have waited an extra 4 months to be diagnosed with a serious condition for which I required treatment.
I also think if I choose to spend money on private care that is my right.
I did mention to the Consultant that I was concerned about jumping the queue and he assured me all I had done was take myself of a waiting list.
Should I need any further monitoring that too will be funded by myself.

Surely if a person has a private consultation appointment it frees up a space for somebody who can use the NHS?
That isn't answering the question - how do you think it works?

Have you read the thread?

It won't free up a space, and those paying are also using the NHS.

The consultant will work partly in the NHS, and partly for him or herself, in an NHS hospital. As a result, there are two lists - the NHS one and the 'private' one. So someone on the NHS list is never going to be seen faster because the other list exists.

But that is not the point. The point is that the 'private' list is not really private, because patients are just paying to join it and be seen faster, then they join the NHS queue.

As the 'private' list has fewer people on it, those who have paid join the NHS queue faster than the people waiting to be seen on the NHS, as everyone joins the list when they have been referred, which happens when they see the consultant, and those paying their £200 get to see him or her faster.

Then they get the op, or whatever treatment is needed in the same hospital as the people in the NHS queue, whilst those people are still waiting to be seen.

Why do you think people pay to be seen? £200 won't come close to the cost of an operation, so they are not 'going private'. They are paying to jump the NHS queue.

I don't mean to be snippy, but all of this has been said several times on this very thread, and stating something then just repeating it when you are asked to explain doesn't make a point at all.