Should hospitals sell unhealthy food?

I worked in an NHS hospital in the 1990s. It was very noticeable that the doctors and nurses ate vast portions of fried food at lunch whereas that admin staff (like me) ate moderate portions of the healthy salads.

Freedom of choice is important. There should be a range of affordable food to suit different tastes. Sometimes when you’ve been given bad news or are going through a gruelling treatment all you want is a little comfort. A hot chocolate and a chocolate bar or piece of cake can make things seem less bleak.

Whiff

keepingquiet didn't upset me just annoyed. I had to give up eating meat which I loved 5 years ago because it got to a point I could only eat it stew and cut through with scissors to make the pieces small. But due to my rare hereditary neurological condition I can choke even on water or my own salvia. My throat can go into spasm . I have even had to stop having chicken which I stewed . Unfortunately my body has made food choices for me . I can't cook fresh everyday so my homemade veg and red lentil and my stew each lasts 6 meals each . Have porridge every morning for breakfast.

I do have fish when out but it has to cooked all the way through . I have eaten at high end places and its been raw in the middle so sent it back after telling them I needed it cooked all the way through. And been told it's how the chef cooks it. So asked to see the manager and explained what I needed . In the end walked out and didn't pay.

When out have to ask my meal to cut up in the kitchen which places do as I can't use a dinner knife and eat with spoon and fork plus lots of napkins . My hands shake at lot . The kitchen staff always put the food back together so it looks whole which is sweet of them . Even if it's baked beans on toast . I can't eat crunchy things as they give my blood blisters in my mouth. So I ask all the toast once cut is covered in the beans so the toast is soft. I know I could have the bread not toasted but it doesn't taste the same .

But the hospitals I have stayed at the food has been very good and healthy and catered for my weird disability.

I have worked in hospitals kitchens as cook in the 70's everything was cooked from scratch but had to be into the heated trolleys by 11am to go to the wards ready for lunch at 12.
The budget even then was low for 3 meals a day.
But the food for sale for the staff was the same as the patients had.

NO fish should ever be RAW in the middle! Dangerous. Lightly cooked maybe but never raw… unless eating sushi or similar.
I once had a similar occurrence with veg … tge carrots on my plate were hard and uncooked… I complained… they said, that’s how they should be …al dente…. I said those are not ‘al dente’ they are RAW! I couldn’t get them changed. Never went back there!

Mini2020

Ummmm rather an odd comment. There is no proven evidence healthy eating keeps you out of hospital! I’ve lost friends who were moderate with food and drink and died of cancer young!

VERY TRUE. I had a friend who was a Naturopath, read every book on healthy foods etc, followed healthy eating and exercise religiously but got Parkinson’s and died too early!
Eating healthily is a matter of what suits your body and what is healthy to one person is anathema to another. I had half of a small fish pie with veg last night ( healthy surely?) …within an hour I was in the bathroom with diarrhoea! I have IBS . I follow a Gluten free diet, but often ‘healthy’ foods will trigger it!

Fallingstar

My husband has been in and out of various hospitals for some time and each canteen was selling rather unhealthy options. I would take my own sandwiches and a flask.
Was weird to see docs and nurses scoffing chips with salad - yes that seemed to be a winner!
Also was a run on hotdogs and chips.

Chips with salad is delicious and not unhealthy!

Ummmm rather an odd comment. There is no proven evidence healthy eating keeps you out of hospital! I’ve lost friends who were moderate with food and drink and died of cancer young!

keepingquiet didn't upset me just annoyed. I had to give up eating meat which I loved 5 years ago because it got to a point I could only eat it stew and cut through with scissors to make the pieces small. But due to my rare hereditary neurological condition I can choke even on water or my own salvia. My throat can go into spasm . I have even had to stop having chicken which I stewed . Unfortunately my body has made food choices for me . I can't cook fresh everyday so my homemade veg and red lentil and my stew each lasts 6 meals each . Have porridge every morning for breakfast.

I do have fish when out but it has to cooked all the way through . I have eaten at high end places and its been raw in the middle so sent it back after telling them I needed it cooked all the way through. And been told it's how the chef cooks it. So asked to see the manager and explained what I needed . In the end walked out and didn't pay.

When out have to ask my meal to cut up in the kitchen which places do as I can't use a dinner knife and eat with spoon and fork plus lots of napkins . My hands shake at lot . The kitchen staff always put the food back together so it looks whole which is sweet of them . Even if it's baked beans on toast . I can't eat crunchy things as they give my blood blisters in my mouth. So I ask all the toast once cut is covered in the beans so the toast is soft. I know I could have the bread not toasted but it doesn't taste the same .

But the hospitals I have stayed at the food has been very good and healthy and catered for my weird disability.

I have worked in hospitals kitchens as cook in the 70's everything was cooked from scratch but had to be into the heated trolleys by 11am to go to the wards ready for lunch at 12.
The budget even then was low for 3 meals a day.
But the food for sale for the staff was the same as the patients had.

Whiff

keepingquiet I couldn't believe your post of 14.17 yesterday. Don't know how to copy . And normally I never quote what people write

' Maybe if people ate healthy food they wouldn't need to go to hospital in the first place '

Excuse me. I was born disabled and also born with a hole in the side of my heart. So when I have needed to stay in hospital it's my own fault because I don't eat healthy food . As my daughter would say are you kidding me .

I cook from scratch make my own soups ,stews foods that have plenty of veg ,pulses in them . I eat mainly Quorn sausages,mince and chicken pieces with my veg etc. As I have problems with some foods and textures as I can choke . I am visibility disabled but have invisible disabilities to.

This thread started talking about food available to buy in hospital.

You are saying people who need to go into hospital it's their own fault because they don't eat healthy food .

Hope you never need to go into hospital to stay if you do I hope you eat your words.

I do apologise for my rather crass statement and meant it in a tongue in cheek way.

The point remains that healthy or unhealthy food is not easy to define.

For come it means eating no meat, for some it means eating only meat.

To castigate hospitals for serving 'unhealthy' food to their staff is very simplistic and so provokes a more considered response.

As someone who worked in the NHS for 20 years I can say that when staff go for breaks they are tired, low on energy and short of time and even money. They want something warm, comforting and calorific and that requires no extra time to prepare. I have also been an in-patient several times in my life for serious health conditions and mentioned this in other comments.

Of course, not all staff go to the canteen- they sometimes don't even get a break to eat anything other than a few biscuits- some take their own food but you won't see them sitting in the canteen.

I spent a lot of my career eating cheese and pickle sandwiches at 3:00 am in the staff work-station so I know what I'm talking about.

The point being made was staff shouldn't be eating unhealthy food, and I just wondered why- maybe because 'healthier' food would be 'better' for them. As a general rule, this is a good idea for everyone and not just hospital staff. I just expressed this in a rather sarcastic way.

Apologies again Whiff- never intended any upset but I still think OP had a rather limited view of the complexities of feeding staff and patients in hospitals.

I wonder why it is, that when you’re under stress - like visiting a seriously ill relative in hospital- “healthy food “ is so hard to eat and “unhealthy” food so much easier?

Like I said the burger and chips were manageable, but there’s no way I could have hacked a chicken salad. I remember trying to eat a scone and finding it quite impossible.

The woman on the table next to me just had chocolate that she put in her mouth and melted with hot tea. It’s all I can manage she said as we eyed each other’s “meals”.

So yes, I think there should be “unhealthy” foods as well as healthy, however contradictory it might seem in the circumstances.

I think the concerning thing for me were row upon row of brightly coloured fizzy drinks and the tiny section dedicated to healthy foods.

I guess my answer to the actual OP’s question is hospitals will sell what people buy, should they ? I don’t really know tbh. What is it you consider “healthy” and “unhealthy” ?

Whiff

keepingquiet I couldn't believe your post of 14.17 yesterday. Don't know how to copy . And normally I never quote what people write

' Maybe if people ate healthy food they wouldn't need to go to hospital in the first place '

Excuse me. I was born disabled and also born with a hole in the side of my heart. So when I have needed to stay in hospital it's my own fault because I don't eat healthy food . As my daughter would say are you kidding me .

I cook from scratch make my own soups ,stews foods that have plenty of veg ,pulses in them . I eat mainly Quorn sausages,mince and chicken pieces with my veg etc. As I have problems with some foods and textures as I can choke . I am visibility disabled but have invisible disabilities to.

This thread started talking about food available to buy in hospital.

You are saying people who need to go into hospital it's their own fault because they don't eat healthy food .

Hope you never need to go into hospital to stay if you do I hope you eat your words.

I utterly agree, so many hospital stays are totally unrelated to eating healthy foods! Sometimes people say or write (including me) silly things without thinking them through properly.

Witzend

Not the point, I know, but I’d have thought that a good many staff on long, very busy shifts would need plenty of calories. And if many of those come from chips, so be it.

YES!

I think people are perfectly capable of eating and choosing their own food, including staff in hospitals.

Of course we should ALL only buy and consume “healthy” foods, never consume a fizzy drink, or alcohol, eat sugary foods or smoke, but we are still allowed our own lives!

When my Mum was alive, she was in and out of hospital in her final years, I took her in exactly what she fancied, which included chocolate and lemonade, as well as healthy sandwiches.

NO ...

Not the point, I know, but I’d have thought that a good many staff on long, very busy shifts would need plenty of calories. And if many of those come from chips, so be it.

Our son was in a hospital in Manchester for over 2 weeks.
He is a fussy eater. But the meals on the ward were tasty and filling. Not once did we need to get him something else to eat as he enjoyed everything he was given.
One day his menu was
Breakfast - porridge, a full English, toast. Plus fruit.
Mid morning - coffee and biscuits
Lunch - soup, lasagne and a pot of ice cream.
Mid afternoon - coffee and biscuits or fruit.
Dinner - starter if wanted, fish and chips, pudding.
Supper - toast and coffee or something else.
This helped him on the road to recovery. (Back operation)
8 hour surgery.
It was a NHS hospital.

In the entrance hall they had a couple of cafes ,m&s food shop,
outside during the day was a greengrocers.

keepingquiet I couldn't believe your post of 14.17 yesterday. Don't know how to copy . And normally I never quote what people write

' Maybe if people ate healthy food they wouldn't need to go to hospital in the first place '

Excuse me. I was born disabled and also born with a hole in the side of my heart. So when I have needed to stay in hospital it's my own fault because I don't eat healthy food . As my daughter would say are you kidding me .

I cook from scratch make my own soups ,stews foods that have plenty of veg ,pulses in them . I eat mainly Quorn sausages,mince and chicken pieces with my veg etc. As I have problems with some foods and textures as I can choke . I am visibility disabled but have invisible disabilities to.

This thread started talking about food available to buy in hospital.

You are saying people who need to go into hospital it's their own fault because they don't eat healthy food .

Hope you never need to go into hospital to stay if you do I hope you eat your words.

We unfortunately had to spend 9 hours at hospital yesterday so to occupy our time we visited the main restaurant and a couple of the snack bars.

There was a salad bar in the main restaurant but we didn’t see anybody using it as it was such a cold day. There was hot soup but that didn’t look very popular either! People were going for chips, baked beans, spicy chicken, jacket potatoes and baguettes with hot meats and gravy.

In the snack bars there was a range of packed sandwiches but from past experience they are so chilled that they have no taste at all and a waste of money. Plenty of sickly looking cakes, coffee and cold drinks.

My husband is in a wheelchair and I was pushing him around and it did annoy me that tables set aside for disabled people (clearly labelled) were being used by uniformed staff. This meant we had to squeeze past chairs and tables and then get the chair squeezed under a table not designed for wheelchairs.

Cabbie21

Our city hospital has its faults and problems, but in general the catering is pretty good. Lots of choice for patients. My husband had difficulty swallowing and staff went to a lot of trouble to produce items he could eat.

As a visitor, there was always one catering outlet open 24 hours a day for drinks and snacks, and if the canteen was open it was good. I hear that local people go there for their Sunday dinners!

That sounds at least a bit positive that others go there specially for meals - and I know that used to happen/probably still does with the restaurant in the main hospital in my home city. I went in there once and it wasn't as healthy as my own food - but I could just about "pass" at eating a meal there if I had to.

But hospitals can be very variable - I was sent for an appointment a bit back since moving here to Carmarthen Hospital and needed a bit of lunch after it and so went to their restaurant (used by staff as well). I came out of it feeling very sorry for the staff - who didn't have a lot of option either - as the hospital is a bit out on a limb in location). It looked just like a canteen, it acted just like a canteen and the food was absolutely dire. Part of the reason they're never getting me back into that hospital ever again (quite apart from the fact I probably had a look of horror on my face just spotting that hospital - still open and working - from the outside...).

Sago

Hi OP here, the question is whether or not hospitals should sell unhealthy food.

I appreciate the people outside in the snow wearing pyjamas and wheeling a drip trolley so they can smoke are not going to want to eat quinoa and drink water.

However for the patients and staff they wish to use the canteen there was little choice of healthy food.

The majority of customers were staff so the NHS are clearly not practising what they preach.

I did understand this, but as is often the case, the thread had morphed into something else.
However, it is part of the same picture.
The catering service is primarily there for the patients, whose dietary needs have to be attended to.
Not so with staff, vital though they are- to service the particular needs of individual tastes of staff would make the meals far more expensive and might swing the priorities elsewhere. Staff are not sick and can choose to bring their own food if they wish. For convenience, they choose no to as for the same reasons they may have a smoke when they get home or open a bottle of something unhealthy. They are free to make those choices.
I will ask the question again though- wht do you mean by 'healthy' food?

I realise this is really about selling food however just wanted to add that if you are an in-patient then the choice seems to be huge now - especiallyin larger hospitals... At least in the hospitals I've had dealings with in the last year or two.
Three hospitals two different trusts.
The one thing that neither offered was plain yogurt. But the yogurt I did have when in hospital this year for a hip replacement was organic!

I couldn't fault the catering team.

And yes, separate "special" diet services on top of that.
And foods of different textures for people with swallowing problems.

Our city hospital has its faults and problems, but in general the catering is pretty good. Lots of choice for patients. My husband had difficulty swallowing and staff went to a lot of trouble to produce items he could eat.

As a visitor, there was always one catering outlet open 24 hours a day for drinks and snacks, and if the canteen was open it was good. I hear that local people go there for their Sunday dinners!

Hi OP here, the question is whether or not hospitals should sell unhealthy food.

I appreciate the people outside in the snow wearing pyjamas and wheeling a drip trolley so they can smoke are not going to want to eat quinoa and drink water.

However for the patients and staff they wish to use the canteen there was little choice of healthy food.

The majority of customers were staff so the NHS are clearly not practising what they preach.

The budget per patient for food for in-patients is so verylow. And, do remember all the special diets that have to be catered for = Diabetic, Religious, Ceoliac, fat free, (plus all the combinations of these eg: diabetic/kosher/fat free etc.etc.) As for staff being able to have the time to be able to actually feed patients, - yes in theory there should be. However, with so many staff shortages - this is just not a possibility.

Should in-patients be asked to pay towards their food? Would it actually cost more in administrating this, than gained by it? - and what about those who just cannot or will not. Are they just to be allowed to starve?

So much of the food supplied in hospital has been privatised out, no longer supplied and cooked and distributed by hospital itself. Just another example of how the whole of the NHS has and is being totally privatised.