::POA's - do we really need them?

Maybe they can read replies as it's politely a must to-do!

If ambulance is called for you after eg. A Fall , sometimes it's not essential to go to hospital but paramedics have no choice but to take you unless someone with poa for health speaks up
... it saved our mum 3 times from going unnecessarily after falls as we understood it was caused by low bp. ( she lost lots of confidence each time she went in after falls) and of course you are there at least a week each time, being assessed, then the medication side being dealt with even if no changes.
Please do.
I feel for paramedics who see it over and over again when you don't have a poa for health

Absolutely do POAs, it’s not a question of you trusting your daughters, a POA ensures that whatever happens your wishes are known, you do not know the future, the fact that parents were compus mantis
into old age does not mean you will be, your daughters no matter how ‘professional’ they are in their careers are not correct in this matter. I speak as one who has had to deal with this matter for three different relatives.

Medical emergencies, leaving one disabled, can happen in seconds regardless of how fit you might be today. POA is definitely necessary, in my opinion.

My son & daughter in law have POA’s for my finance & just waiting for the health one to be finished. Having seen the mess that one friends family got in without POA & then seeing how another's son was talked down to by medics until he said he had POA. The medics couldnt change fast enough when he said that so we decided on these two examples to get POA done as soon as possible. Just hoping that the health one is through soon as at my age (80) no one knows what the future holds. So would say get POA’s done as soon as you can.

crazyH

I am right in the middle of doing my POA - (1) Property and Financial and (2) Health and Welfare.
It only costs £92 each , but much more if you use a Solicitor
I have 3 children.

Please can you tell me what method you are using as I don't want to involve a solicitor. I understand you need to register the POA?

We applied for both PoA’s for my father aged 98, who was mentally very well although needing care for his physical health and they took over a year to arrive, and by then it was too late because he had died.

Meetings with a social worker in dads last few weeks as he had been deemed by the hospital to lack capacity by then for somethings although we disagreed. And because of the lack of the POA’s was embarrassing for him and for us. The social worker agreed with us and dad what needed to be done, and really her time could have much better spent elsewhere with someone who genuinely needed her time and expertise.

It also meant that we had to fund some things from our own bank accounts that could have been funded directly from his bank account. This wasn’t a problem for us, but others may not have the spare cash to do this.

Learning from this, we have PoA’s for each other in place. It wasn’t expensive to do it ourselves, although one has to be careful with the paperwork.

Hope this helps.

I think everyone should have them including your daughters - no one knows what life will bring and a stroke or accident or any number of other unexpected challenges can occur in a moment. I think they are now calleed Lasting Power of Attorney LPAs........or do POAs still exist?

KKOB

POA's need to be registered and it can take up to 6 months these days for it to go through the necessary stages, and you have to pay.

All the more reason to do it before it’s actually needed, then.

After far too much experience of dementia, dh and I have added paragraphs to our H&W Ps of A that read roughly,

‘If I should develop dementia, or any other condition where I am unable both to care for myself, and speak, with full mental capacity, for myself, then I emphatically do not want any life-saving or life-prolonging treatment. I ask for palliative care only.’

POA's need to be registered and it can take up to 6 months these days for it to go through the necessary stages, and you have to pay.

I took out both powers of attorneys in 2020. My daughter and son in law are my attorneys .Both are fully aware of my wishes. By having both powers of attorney they can inforce my wishes if I am not capable of doing so . Especially the health one . As they know I don't want to be kept alive if I have no quality of life . Having it all legally documented makes it easier for them and I have peace of mind .

We did POA for my husband after he had a major stroke. As well as damaging him physically it left him with speech and memory problems. He is also unable to sign his name now as his writing hand is paralysed. It was straightforward to do on the gov.uk site.

Franbern Both POAs are crucial if the time comes when they are needed. I really hope your daughters agree and that you can get both in place asap 💐

watermeadow

I did both POAs a few years ago but there was a small mistake in one, someone wrote her address in one place but missed it in another. It was returned to me and I would not repeat the long complicated process so it was not registered.
I don’t think this matters, it tells my family what I intended.

It might tell your family what you intend but as it is not legally registered that means your family will have no legal rights to make decisions on your behalf if you cant make them. It really does matter!

We did our own. It didn't seem complicated and there is lots of guidance.

This is what Martin Lewis says:
www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/power-of-attorney/#:~:text=Martin%20Lewis%3A%20%22I%20think%20Power,This%20is%20really%20important.

Our Wills are lodged at the probate registry. This costs about £23.
Saves worrying about losing them or paying a solicitor.
Details can be found through Gov.uk.

watermeadow

I did both POAs a few years ago but there was a small mistake in one, someone wrote her address in one place but missed it in another. It was returned to me and I would not repeat the long complicated process so it was not registered.
I don’t think this matters, it tells my family what I intended.

Your family might know what you intended, it doesn't mean an official body will act accordingly without the power of attorney being in place.

butterandjam

Retread

For me the question is - why does a PoA have to be done “officially”? Why can one not just write out a similar document that sets out permission and wishes, sign and date it and have it witnessed and kept safely for when it is needed? I don’t understand why the Government has to be involved. It feels like yet another money making scheme …

Because anyone can fake a document.

POA conveys huge power, can be literally life and death.

It has to be registered at the Office of the Public Guardian as official proof it's genuine, when it was made, by whom, to whom etc.

Official proof of house purchase is recorded at the Land Registry; and birth, marriage and death are recorded at the General records Office ( E and W) .

What about Wills …? Are they recorded in a central government register?

Of course documents - including “official” documents get forged. Fraud is nothing new.

" they could and would be able to continue with my financial arrangements. Virtually all my regular payments are on Direct Debit, so there would be no change there. "

Just to add to my post above - when it came to suddwnly needing to move large amounts of money, and quickly, we discovered that it wasn't quite as easy as we had imagined, even with POA. I don't think we would have got away with doing this illicitly - I suspect that the banks' systems would have picked up on this unusual activity and queried it.

Financial POA for my mother was put in place about nine years ago - my father was terminally ill, and he wanted to make sure my brother and I would be able to help my mother in the future if it became necessary.
He did it himself, and it wasn't too expensive.

Until last year, we didn't need to use it. I did a weekly online drop for Mum, and she had shared her bank details with me so that I could deal with any online banking that was necessary, but that was it.
However, last February she suddenly started declining rapidly, both medically and physically, culminating in her having to move into a care home later in the year, and her house having to be sold. This is when the POA has become invaluable. Without it, it would have been a lot more difficult even to organize her finances so that her care home fees can be paid.

Even with POA, some companies still make you jump through rings before you can use it with them (for example estate agents who insist on seeing the original POA, even though banks are happy to access it via a one-time code!), but it is still a lot easier than it would have been without the POA.

We didn't have the health and welfare POA until very recently. Luckily, we saw the way things were going and managed to get it signed and witnessed on a good day, while Mum had capacity to understand what she was signing.
That said, so far we haven't needed to use that particular POA, but sooner or later it might be needed.

The thing is, your children need to understand that POAs are not something that you can risk putting off until you need them. Health can change very quickly, and you could go overnight from being fit and healthy to no longer having having the mental capacity necessary for POAs to be made.

Witzend

AGAA4

Bank accounts are frozen when a person dies to prevent fraudulent access.
That means no direct debits would be paid.

But AFAIK the financial P of A becomes invalid on death anyway.

Correct. POA is for the living. Wills are for the dead.

Please do Franbern .

I did both POAs a few years ago but there was a small mistake in one, someone wrote her address in one place but missed it in another. It was returned to me and I would not repeat the long complicated process so it was not registered.
I don’t think this matters, it tells my family what I intended.

Thank you for all your replies, which is pretty unanimous. I am with both these daughters this coming weekend and will raise this matter, again, with them.
I know it is not a matter of them not wanting the responsibility as they both accept that they will be the main ones involved in sorting out my affairs when I die. The one who lives near to me would have the responsibility of getting my flat on the market, etc.

I think that they feel that these forms are just another way of getting money off people, they and I are in total agreement as to how I would like to be treated if I was seriously ill - I do have an Advance Declaration in place, also. My funeral is all arranged and paid for.

I will try to get them to agree to at least the financial one being put in place. As I am in receipt of Pension Credit, I cn show them that I will only pay very little towards the registration of this. Once they agree to that, then afterwards I will go for the health one.

Retread

For me the question is - why does a PoA have to be done “officially”? Why can one not just write out a similar document that sets out permission and wishes, sign and date it and have it witnessed and kept safely for when it is needed? I don’t understand why the Government has to be involved. It feels like yet another money making scheme …

It won’t necessarily be recognised by relevant institutions as being a genuine statement. My brother has an official POA for our mother and even with a POA it’s been onerous for him to sell her house, do minor things like her post being redirected, and so many other things.

The banks and officialdom in general is very, very cautious, in our experience, and if there is any doubt they won’t accept a mere letter.

Witzend

If you fill out the forms yourself, which is really not difficult, though it does need care, it doesn’t cost all that much.

Personally I think Ps of A are essential. What if you had e.g. a stroke and were unable to speak for yourself, let alone act for yourself? Or were taken seriously ill in any other way, or were involved in a serious accident?

If you have no P of A in such circs, it’s a major headache for relatives, and the Court of Protection would need to be involved, which AFAIK costs considerably more and can take ages to set up.

Indeed, it's approximately £100 to do it yourself, and if it's not done correctly the Office of the Public Guardian sends it back until it is ...

Personally I think the Financial one is important, the medical one not so much as doctors are overriding them anyway. You can do a Treatment Escalation Plan with your GP to say what your wishes are should you end up in hospital, and that is obviously free!