Should we insist that immigrants speak our language?

I don't think they will have a better life here! What could possibly make up for your child losing the ability to walk, run, climb, and do many the things children love to do!

Not to mention the fact that their child's future which will be hugely restricted.

After living in England where I had enjoyed successful careers it was odd to find myself with the vocabulary of an average ten-year old in France. (I don't have an ear for language, or music. I am told I am tone deaf). Whilst I have enough French for everyday living, I can't discuss politics, religion, literature, etc. Perhaps if I had had to work in France, rather than being retired, and if I had lived in less remote villages, my French would have improved. I did once attend an Over-60s club in one village, but a combination of the local dialect (Catalan), very rapid speech and my own partial hearing loss made it a struggle. I am now happy to get my communication via the internet and phone calls.

I wonder if I might just add my own personal view on 'communication' which is what this is all about. I understand the difficulties, because our son does not talk, and only understands about 80% of what is said to him. He has difficulty telling us what the trouble is, if he is upset, angry, or ill, so we, and those around him have to work hard to find the cause and put things right. This must be the same for those people who come into this country and do not speak our language.
And yes, I do hope the family will have a better life here, despite the tragedy, and that they will receive all the help available. On the whole I believe we are a charitable nation, and I am glad I live here and have the freedom to express my views.

I am not illiterate. I just can't get to grips with this ergonomic keyboard of my daughter's. Sorry for the stray letters that creep into all my postings at the moment.

Pretty much anyone can learn pretty much any language (enough to get by in the country) at pretty much any age - if the language is taught properly. Volunteer schemes, such as that mentioned by Annobel, were terific because women who for a variety of reasons were unable to attend classes could be taught at home. One of the most successful lessons I ever gave centred around playing with a pack of Happy Families cards - we were practising "Have you got", "please" and "thankyou" as well as learning useful vocabulary such baker, butcher etc. By the end of the lesson - in a tiny bedroom with two sets of bunk beds, I had granny, grandad, auntie and fsix children playing, as well,of course, as mum whjo was my pupil. I left the cards with them at the end oif the lesson. Unfortunately, many local authorities have discontinued these schenes.

It is always helpful if people can speak the main language of the country they live in but sometimes that is not easy. Sometimes the 'host' country makes it tricky for newcomers and sometimes the newcomers are scared, reluctant or just find it very difficult. A few may just be unwilling. I think it is also a class issue. Immigrants with a high level of education are often more able to integrate into the host society whereas those less well educated tend to just get on with earning a living and surviving and will have less opportunity for integration and opportunity to learn the local lingo!

And I enjoy talking to you, jingle, and granbunny! And all the people who join me in debates about politics and religion. I don't really get upset about anything anyone says on a forum and I don't intend to upset anyone else.

(that was to GN)

I enjoy talking to you anyway.

Well Greatnan, I've really tried to be friendly to you.

M

I think we can all imagine the parents' feelings without them having to express anything in English. And I think the support and comfort would have come from people in their immediate community who speak their language.

I'm sorry but I think the wording of the original post was unpleasant.

And it wasn't a better life for them was it, PRINTMISS.

[Hmm]

i've found jingl very supportive...

charlota
I agree . Jings has got the wrong end!
But on the other hand:- perhaps it would have been more sensitive to bring the problem of non English speakers, up on on a different thread!
The two are not connected!
I think we all feel for the child concerned? It was a disgusting incident!
I have to work all the time with non English speakers! On one occasion I had to have welsh translater!
Nothing wrong with that, I don't speak welsh, the judge did!
It is much more difficult got all concerned!

I can't understand jingl. We are all thinking about the extra difficulties of such a tragedy happening to people who can't speak the language of those around them. Our discussion does not alter the situation of that family, nor does it belittle the tragedy of it. Even though we feel for them and their daughter we can still take part in a discussion. If everything that is tragic is removed from GN then we can only make jokes - or have laugh and then some of us would leave.

It is bad enough when you post on a thread and then Bamm! from jingl she thinks it is crass and accuses you of being heartless.
It happened to me and I was really upset by it.

When I was inGP in Wednesbury, it was normal for young boys to come along with their mothers to translate gynaecological problems! I got used to it as these people preferred their ladies to be examined by a female doctor!
I was the only one in town!
In those days, medicine was very much male orientated!

In America, they used to expect immigrants to go to English classes, and I can't see any problem with that, particularly for women, who often get forgotten and left at home. Surely the best way for people to get the most out of their new lives in a new country is for them to be able to understand what is going on. I think we should be providing free, even compulsory (hides under the parapet) English classes and forget about these daft questions about being British, which many of us who were born here would struggle with. These poor people whose daughter was shot might find it easier to realise how much sympathy there is for them if they had had the chance to learn English in an organised fashion. How must they feel when they don't? It is so sad.

Yes, I think we all understand that point, but on a first reading it came over as a criticism of immigrants for not learning to speak English.

I think that having an interpretor for the family would have put them at ease in what was a very trumatic time for the parents.

PRINTMISS, don't you even think about 'keeping quiet in future'!!

I think it's all being taken out of context, now. The 'original poster' wasn't criticising the mother - only the fact that frequently there is a problem with language. The OP was using this as an example.

Thank you for that clarification, Printmiss - I am sure we have all got carried away by the 'exuberance of our own verbosity' from time to time. Please don't stop posting.

Such a lot said, and so much of it true, so no doubt there will never be a solution. I am just glad that I live in a country where other nationalities are able to live a hopefully better life than the one they left behind. I do apologise to those of you who thought my reference to the little girl was perhaps thoughtless; my thoughts were about her of course, but my main concern was with the parents, and my sympathies were very much with them. They must have had real difficulty understanding what was happening, asking questions, and expressing their true feelings, and in no way would I question the cost of an interpretator for that purpose - I just think it would have been so much easier for them if they had been able to express their feelings themselves - if you understand what I mean. Perhaps they do have a smattering of English which allows them to work and shop, and so live happily in their community, and perhaps I should not have mentioned the cost of interpretators for law-breakers in the same article - I just got carried away, I am afraid, sorry again - I will just keep quiet in future (HA! says my husband) I sincerely hope that the perpetrators of such a dreadful crime will be duly punished.

I give up.