'The thug in police uniform'. (Daily Mail today)

I neither like nor use the term 'kids'...except when referring to young goats.

johnna what a long time since I heard anyone complain about calling children Kids. I suspect she would have to rule them all out these days!

Crikey! I've been away from my PC a couple of days and have come back to this diatribe. I'm hopping straight out again and will head for calmer climes. It's more than my brain and body can stand at present

Aha, jess, governors.
Knew a lovely lady , since departed, who was a governor of an important local C.of E school.
She used to sit in on interviews when teachers were applying for a post.
As soon as any of them referred to children as KIDS. That would be IT!!
No matter their qualifications etc. etc.
She maintained that KIDS are GOATS.
And those people would not be hired.
Maybe she had a point with her "vetting"?

Getting back to topic - is it not a strange thing that teachers cannot be sacked except by governors. Heads do the early stages of the disciplinary process but if it is a hearing that might result in dismissal they present their management case to 3 governors.
But police and other professions do their own disciplinaries.
I think education has it right. But Gove is busily undermining the role of governors.

I am not saying or even thinking that Pammygran deliberately sowed discontent - to imply that would add yet another layer of reasons for people to shout at one another! - but we have had agents provocateurs in the past who threw provocative remarks gratuitously into discussions to cause posters to fall out with one another instead of discussing the subject sensibly. They did it because they enjoyed putting the cat among the pigeons and seeing the feathers fly. The only people who came out of these occasions with dignity were those who kept their cool and were not riled, and those who resisted the temptation to answer back.

Time to return to the discussion or change the subject?

Well I don't think personal attacks are funny. Clearly I have a very different sense of humour.

Me too!

How sad to see the way this interesting discussion has descended to personal attacks. Robust, healthy debate is not harmful, but sniping and targetting indviduals in this way is abusive. I'm off to other threads.

I quite like the idea of having more than my share of testosterone - must be why I am so good at map-reading.

No jeni that just isn't good enough. It was a truly offensive remark.

Greatnan you might be able to rise above it but I object on general principles and I would be interested to see what HQ think about pammygran's remark.

Oh, for goodness sake! Pammygran didn't call Greatnan an ape! I do wish people would read posts properly before getting so indignant.

I don't think it was meant to be complimentary, but I am beginning to see the funny side of the whole thing (apart from the horrible miscarriage of justice and slurs on the family).

But an ape nonetheless, as were homo erectus and our other pedessessors.
I'm not ashamed to be an ape! Albeit an advanced one!

Please don't be outraged on my behalf, petallus - it just made me laugh!

*AlisonMA perhaps you should think again about whether or not Gransnetters are above childish behaviour.

We've just had one poster calling another poster whom she disagrees with an ape (amongst other things).

Oh dear! I'm going to the poetry thread for some peace and quiet. Wouldn't say no to a wee dram at Lil's but the chaps are still proping up the bar...and anyway, have to wait 'til 6 o'clock...it's what we do in Kintyre.

Then Greatnan I can only assume you feel that my remarks were appropriate to you. They were general remarks based upon my observations since I joined GN a few months ago. They were not directed at anyone in particular.

Your comment about people "ganging up" reminds me of a comment a while back about people having private conversations about others or something like that. At the time I commented that I didn't think that sort of thing would occur to most people and I hope that no one would gang up as that implies some sort of collusion outside of GN. Gangs like that would be very childish and would have a leader with sycophantic followers. I hope we are all above such behaviour!

pammygran's post above was so stupidly offensive that it took my breath away. I refer particularly to the 'ape' comments.

How horrible to be on the receiving end of comments like that but even worse to be the kind of person who thinks it's okay to make them!

I've never felt this outraged on Gransnet before and I hope HQ will take action.

Ganging up? I was merely reiterating nannym's point.

If that accusation of bullying is being levelled at me then I strongly object! I asked you to explain how you could tell when someone was being deliberately controversial as I would find it impossible.

O.K. Alison, I was referring to your remarks.

There are plenty of places in GN that are "nice" and uncontroversial and long may it continue.
I have in the past likened this forum to a big women's centre with different things going on in different rooms. Support groups, chats over coffee, heated debates and other activities.
I think it is fine if the debates are full of disagreements but just as in real life not fine if people resort to rudeness or snide digs. No one has to join debates, but please, if you do, let us disagree with their views not attack individuals. If there is no disagreement, there is no debate.

Greatnan "I do wish that if someone wants to insult me they would have the courage to come out and say it. I prefer pammygran's blatant rudeness and breach of forum etiquette to snide remarks which are obviously aimed at me. (Now I will get 'If the cap fits....')" Do you have the courage "to come out and say it" and name the person to whom you refer? It does sound to me as if you are doing exactly what you are critiscising someone else for.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we "avoid difficult concepts" but I do sometimes feel that people could be kinder/gentler/more empathetic to other people's opinions. Neither do I think anyone has suggested we 'use simpler language' or have I missed something? I do think that paragraph in your message actually does sound patronising/condescending and implies that you think you are superior to some others. This is of course my opinion, although I am aware that others will share it and perhaps PM me because they don't want to put their head above the parapet.

"I am not going to descend to personal insult and invective and I will continue to post my honest opinions" I am so glad to hear this, I hope that applies to us all.

"in spite of knowing that a small group will react with hostility to anything I say" do you really believe there is a group of people out to get you whether small or large? I very much doubt if you can prove that there is anyone who has reacted "with hostility to anything" you say. Don't you think that is rather over the top?

Perhaps you shouldn't take everything so personally as you appear to not want anyone else to do?

Because an opinion is honestly held does not prove that it is right - I took the view that it was totally wrong and said so. What should I have said?

I think it is reaching the stage when enough people are 'ganging up' on me for me to squeal that I am being bullied!