Ian Brady reveals burial site.

I would never call myself an 'expert' on anything jingl, but I'm working on it! Sadly it's a bit too late to become a brain surgeon so I will have to settle for 'expert on making mistakes'

I watched the link you sent Faye - interesting! It seems love may be even more powerful than we thought!

nightowl - another reason not to trust so-called "experts".

(sorry if you are/were one!)

I believe most abused children do not grow up to be abusers. Many people who have had dreadful childhoods become happy and successful adults.
Leslie Thomas was a Barnardo's child.
I am told that my father's coldness and detachment have had a bad effect on me, making me very critical of men. However, I have five grandsons, a son-in-law and several prospective grandsons-in-law that I love dearly. I think it is men that makes me critical of men!
I cannot blame any of my mistakes or personality defects on my childhood - except perhaps that my mother did not tell me that my husband was a total bore and I should not marry him! Unfortunately, I always gave the impression of being totally in charge of my life, even at 18, and I think she (and my sister) were reluctant to interfere. They only told me what they really thought of him when I decided to leave him after 20 years.

J04 proponents of attachment disorder would say that you can blame almost anything on your childhood. That's one reason why I am cautious about it - it seems to leave so little room for hope.

With that childhood background Greatnan Brady would now be diagnosed with attachment disorder - very popular at the moment. I know there is a lot of research into the effects of abuse in childhood on the development of the brain. I must confess to a certain scepticism about these studies - I find it difficult to believe that everything can be reduced to brain chemistry. How do we know what our own brain scans would look like? It seems it is only those with mental disorders or curious scientists who would have routine brain scans, although I'm sure the neuroscientist used a large control group. It seems to me that each individual is such a complex mix of biochemistry and environmental factors that we can only ever find bits of the answers. It is a fascinating subject though.

That's what I thought - there is a gene but nurture can head a child off rom that tendency.

Of course. by adulthood you can't blame your behaviour on your childhood.

The death penalty will never come back. Rightly so. Would be a VERY backward step!

I watched that programme, Faye, and the conclusion seemed to be that there is a gene for violence and crime, but it is usually only activated if the child is neglected, unloved or abuse.
You can find out all about Brady's childhood if you look on google. His single mother had to give him up for unofficial adoption but continued to visit him until he was 12, although she did not tell him she was his mother. The identity of his father is unknown. He was a troubled child and developed an obsession with the Nazis and sadomasochism. He served some time in prison for burglary and no doubt that fuelled his rage against society, but it was his meeting with Hindley that sealed the fate of his victims. He may not have acted alone but he enjoyed shocking and impressing her.

For those who would like to see the death penalty restored (it won't be) - how do you feel about wrongful convictions and executions? Many are known to have occurred.

Recently I watched a documentary regarding the brain and Neuroscientist James Fallon was interviewed regarding the effect of nature and nurture on Psychopathy. He studies brain scans, and decided to analyze his own brain scans and those of his family to determine if psychopathy was present. What he found was more than a little disturbing to him… Really fascinating story and he talks about how children are brought up does make a difference.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=cnV4RnWcmWo

nature /nurture yonks ago when| i studied phsychology there was the nature nurture debate, apparently identical twins were raised in totally different ways to try and confirm if upbringing really affected personality.

I do not think any firms conclusions were made!

The final conclusion was we are all a mixture of what genes we are born with and how we are nurtured.

interesting tho isnt it?

I never seriously thought you did nikdumpling. But I do think that Brady regrets what he did. No remorse of course, but I bet he wishes he'd never committed the crimes that landed him where he is. I believe he detests Ashworth.

Sorry Nannadogsbody, I don't really think we should bring back oubliettes, just that a very few people, like Brady, should be quietly kept in comparative isolation, without too much comfort and with no publicity feeding their ego.

I think you are spot on there Anagram. I'm off to find something a bit more lighthearted now.

johanna, he probably has mixed feelings. In one way he enjoyed the power he had over the authorities in that he might reveal the whereabouts of Keith's body, and Winnie was one way of exploiting that. Now she is gone, he's running out of people to goad and manipulate, although obviously it's still important that the burial site is found. I doubt he knows now anyway.

Do you think he is johanna? He may be, but I think the fact that he wants to die suggests that he is not really enjoying his life. I don't think we can ever understand his mind, because we try to judge him by our own relatively normal ways of thinking. I'm not sure I even want to understand his way of thinking.

POGS is right, it's time for a large .

nikdumpling I think lots of innocent people were thrown into those oubliettes too. Ironic to forget the name!

Blimey I certainly get an education on G.N.

Now back to the gin bottle.

jeni.

I thought that would be a gurt hole in thick ther floor.

You know, what I find such an awful thought is that Mr. Brady is highly likely to to be sitting there in a glorious glow of satisfaction.
The delight, for him, that he has outlived Winnie will sustain him for days.

You may be right Anagram, who knows? Maybe it was too late for him; I have no idea what his childhood was like. Or maybe anneandgraham is right and people like him are born and not made. I don't believe it but that's only my opinion. I don't think anyone has the answers - though many different ideas have been put forward. It depends on one's perspective I suppose.

I knew that really. It's on the long list of things I can't remember.

Oubliettes to you too!

Oubliettes

You know those deep pits with bars over the top that you see in old castle ruins? The ones where they used to inter evil people and forget about them? .......... !

(oh dear, thoughts like that won't get me into heaven!)

nightowl, don't you think he found love, or something like it, with Myra Hindley? I know she turned against him in the end, but apparently he has never said a word against her since their arrest.

that is quite a nice idea to think that love and care can change someones personality but I do not really think that is it.

It must surely help but some people are downright nasty or evil whatever their background or care.

Sadly some people are extremely evil and I suspect to commit such hideous crimes then Brady must have been a mixture of pure evil and unhinged mentally.

is too dreadful to even think about!

Poor Winnie that is the sad thing that she had to go to her death not knowing where her beloved son was buried.

I do hope she is at peace now.