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Gas and Electricity Prices.

(33 Posts)
crimson Sat 13-Oct-12 14:08:41

I've got an article about it somewhere [if I can find it amongst the mess that is my computer room]. Saying that the energy companies work together to keep prices us [a cartel they called it].

absentgrana Sat 13-Oct-12 10:17:56

JessM It was a 23% increase in profit in the last six months, I think. Nice work if you can get it.

JessM Sat 13-Oct-12 10:15:00

I agree it was not a very good interview.
And also agree that so many UK houses are hard to improve. Double glazing is expensive and therefore does not pay back the householder's investment for years and years. It is not therefore popular with the energy efficiency industry.

Not sure what 23% profit means - 23% of what? Do you mean increase in profit?

Lilygran Sat 13-Oct-12 10:08:53

BritishGas man on Today yesterday claimed 23% PROFIT last year wasn't enough to allow them to invest in the infrastructure. They are forced to put up prices. And now the other energy companies are following. BG man said it was our fault if the bills are high for not taking advantage of their free insulation offer. We live an an old house, no two of the windows are the same shape, cost of double glazing would buy a modern flat; walls not suitable for cavity wall insulation. We have loft insulation.

JessM Sat 13-Oct-12 09:16:17

Well I guess the argument is, absent that when you buy shares you lend some of your money to the company in the hope that either the share value will increase over time or that the annual dividend will yield a return on your money. So the directors are entrusted will this money to run the company and/or invest. If they need more money to invest than they have in their bank account they have few choices - issue more shares at a risk of decreasing share value, borrow it or raise more money from the business.
When I was working for Water Co. I could see that "investment in the infrastructure" was somewhat different in that industry than the normal meaning of "investment". At it's simplest:
a/ building a new factory, so you can sell more products
or
b/ replacing 100 year old corroded mains so that you can meet EU legislation and the demands of the regulator.You did not make money by doing this. It was a straight cost.
Very different.
I do not know enough about the ins and outs of the energy industry to know how much of 1 and how much of 2 is meant when they say "investment" but I think a lot of it goes into making sure that there is going to be continuity of supply on 5 or 10 years time.

absentgrana Sat 13-Oct-12 08:33:05

The whole point of shareholders was to fund capital projects. Well that one's gone right out the window. Users now have to fund capital projects – shareholders just receive dividends. It's unsustainable and the whole house of cards will collapse in due course. Meanwhile, energy users are just cash cows.

JessM Sat 13-Oct-12 08:27:14

I think there are several reasons crimson - one is investing in the network. This may mean building gas terminals and pipelines? We will be having to import more (russian) gas. We also need more power stations to replace old ones, and we will have to pay for that one way or another over the next 10 years. It inevitably feeds through to bills.
The other is an obligation put on energy companies by the government to promote energy efficiency. (I always find it a little amusing that they are obliged by law to spend some of the money they collect on encouraging reduced use of their product. ) Instead of the government funding energy efficiency out of taxation. This is because, left to our own devices, we are not that willing to make energy improvements to our homes - which are still very poor in this regard (compared to e.g. Germany)
This is why energy companies subsidise new boilers, loft insulation etc.
There is a new ECO scheme coming in about now, that is obliged to improve energy efficiency in certain targeted areas.
Energy prices rise and of course a % of customers do not pay their bills, a cost which falls on other customers.
The other reason, and it is just one is that the companies were privatised by the tories and therefore owned by shareholders, who have to be given some dividend. This is a legacy that we are stuck with. However due to the ECO obligation and the cost of customer interaction they are continually looking for new ways to be more profitable - the top responsibility of directors is to "create shareholder value"
Ed Milliband says he would try to reduce bills but this will be a tough job!
Many environmentalists argue that our energy is too cheap in this country and that if it was more expensive we would not waste such a huge amount of it.

crimson Fri 12-Oct-12 21:51:18

Going up again. Doesn't seem to be a reason for it [other than the shareholders are still getting their profits]. I get more and more angry each time it happens. I mean, we can't even vote with our feet and it always happens just as the weather is getting colder. People aren't getting much in the way of payrises, so where is the money coming from. I actually feel like picking up my placard and marching somewhere/anywhere.