Bashing political parties

George Osborne may be Chancellor of the Exchequer but he isn't an economist.

annodomini, """I once attended a meeting addressed by Denis Healey. He kept the audience in the palm of his hand. Nobody has charisma these days and hardly anyone has any principles. Disillusioned? You bet I am"""

We can shake hand on this then.

Today's leading politicians are economists, not social democrats.

Alan Johson got sacked as the front bench opposition Chancellor because he wasnt an economist, he spoke from the heart.

Alan Johnson was a postman.

Ivanhoe

Didn't Robin once say 'alas, my face is against me '...

I once attended a meeting addressed by Denis Healey. He kept the audience in the palm of his hand. Nobody has charisma these days and hardly anyone has any principles. Disillusioned? You bet I am.

I never heard Phillip Noel Baker speak, but I agree that Robin Cooke was good. He didn't have much in favour of himself – small, rather ugly man, an appearance that he made worse with that wretched beard, and a funny little squeaky voice – but his command of language, his rapier-sharp intellect and his shining integrity made him a man to watch and listen to. Who matches up now? Who has stepped into his shoes?

I've got it on video [of course, it's on utube now] but I can't watch it. He died on my daughters wedding day. Most of the family are active Labour Party members, and it threw a shadow over the day. Are there any great orators in politics any more? Was he the last one? Many years ago we went to a talk given by Phillip Noel Baker. I was horrified when this crippled old man was all but wheeled up onto the stage [I'd taken several people with me] but, boy, when he started talking I was mesmerised.

Tegan That was something wasn't it – an extraordinary melding of integrity and courtesy?

I think the last time I felt any positive sort of emotion about politics or politicians was when I heard Robin Cook's resignation speech .

petallus, I agree with every single comment you make.

I was a Labour activist until Tony Blair embraced Margaret Thatcher's right wing free market Agenda, I then withdrew my membership of the Labour party due to Blair ditching Labour's core values to court the self centred middle class vote.

Thanks for the support. Gagagran - I think you will find that one defence against a charge of libel is that the remarks made are true, and I think you will find that mine were. Since when was it 'strident' to state an opinion about a person who has voluntarily entered the political arena? And how do you define strident? Do you ever listen to PMQT? I doubt if David Cameron would be worried by anything I could say about him.
I am also on record as stating my total dissatisfaction with New Labour too, so your comments on that score are also unfounded.
I will not be beating a hasty retreat, no matter how many people criticise every post I make - I am made of sterner stuff than that.

Yes quite anno - a fair amount of Blair bashing above methinks.
I don't think it is "strident" to say what Grtnan did - she did not say he was not a decent person, just, given his policies, it is difficult to think of him like that. Given this is a political thread I think that was put very moderately.
I could give an example of what strident looks like in print if anyone needs a calibration point. If there is the demand.
I'm becoming rather a fan of Ed. Saw him in person a few years back interacting with about 50 people who all knew more about the subject than he did.
I thought his party conference speech was impressive - without notes or an autocue absent hardly muppet like. And seemed to strike a new balance point for the party, more to my liking than Blair.
But I could live to be disappointed.

annodomini I agree with much of what you say. I think the Labour party, too, has betrayed its original principles. I also find Ed Milliband massively irritating and muppet-like although I try not to be over-influenced by personalities.

As it happens, Gagagran, I have been bashing all the parties! I have never been and will never be a Tory because I believe it to be the party of entrenched privilege. However, I'm no more enamoured of the Labour party and view the Lib Dems in coalition as traitors to their original principles.

Greatnan I find your comment about David Cameron not being a decent person offensive. Your strident views need to be tempered. In my view they are verging on libellous.

I feel this thread is like an online meeting of the Labour Party and it is very off-putting for those of us with more ambivalent politics. (beats a hasty retreat)

nanaej You are not alone in having difficulties with economics. It is said that if you put three economists in one room, you'll end up with four opinions.

I fail to understand how people can think David Cameron is a decent person. He is in charge of a cabinet that is systematically targeting the least privileged and most vulnerable members of society. I don't believe Osbourne is making policy without consulting his prime minister.
Contracts are still being awarded to companies that are major tax avoiders and that have manifestly failed to deliver on previous contracts. Why? Hm....

I do think some politicians are driven by vocation but not enough. I think the media/ system today make it much harder for people not to get hooked up on personality rather than policy. I agree that few younger politicians cut their teeth in local politics /councils anymore or have any 'real world' proper working experience. It seems it is all about spin and personality..less committed to core princples or connection with the voters. I know that some MPs are great constituent MPs. My MP, Jeremy Hunt, epitomises all that I dislike about modern politicians.

jessM As one of the unfortunate constituents of David M I am sorry that I cannot agree with you. South Shields is a working class (fairly deprived)area and like all his fellow MP,s Mr Milliband is "in it" for what he and only he can get out of it. This is an extremely safe seat for him and the people would vote for a monkey in this area so long as it stood for labour.

I echo many sentiments here. I came from a Labour supporting family. My dad only arrived in UK in 1947 and met with everything bad about the 'old boys' mainly Tory network when trying to find work as a 'foreign' lawyer. He was a huge supporter of comprehensive education. His big disappointment was the Labour Party would not speak out against Zionism. I have always voted Labour..even last time when I did not want to but the alternatives were worse. I want a 'None of the above' box on my ballot paper. None of the big political players inspire me to vote for them. I consider myself a democratic socialist and will vote for the party that most nearly represents my views, cannot imagine that will ever be Tory! I echo the fear of the far right fascists gaining ground and would do what I could to prevent that including doorstepping in marginals. The trouble with UKIP is that they really do not have any other coherent policies except get out of Europe and they are basically disgruntled far right Tories. I know I do not understand economics well enough to understand the arguments about how to solve the current economic crisis. Except I believe Roosevelt's strategies of work creation and infrastructure development (plus WW2) kick started the economy for US in the 30's. None of my best friends are Tories but I know people who are. We get along as long as we do only talk about neutral things like TV programmes, films, holidays etc..once we stray into education, health, etc etc it goes down hill fast!

I think Dave was too closely linked to Blair.

Ed slightly more left than Dave I think.

Do you think they should have had David Milliband as leader, and not Ed? I really liked Ed at the time but sadly now feel he's not the right man for the job.

Labour voter from S Wales myself (you wouldn't have guessed I know) and could never bring myself to vote for one of the other parties. Except possibly, in certain circumstances, Green.
But no I couldn't abide Blair either. I think he squandered his majority and spent far too much time worrying about spin.
There is a strong feeling in the country that politicians are all the same etc etc at the moment.
I don't think they are all in it for what they can get. I think an awful lot of them are sincere and want to "make things better", including Milliband and yes, dithering Dave too.
I just wish that you were not allowed to become an MP until you had actually tried to manage something, whether it is a laboratory, a software team, a school or a business. And had a 12 month course in what "evidence" means and why it matters. But instead we have a lot of career politicians who have never managed anything. And who do not grasp that it is a good idea to prove something works before inflicting it on the whole country.

gillybob You are, of course, right. We are back to the problem of the system, so that there are safe seats and marginal seats and the only ones that really matter are the latter. The system needs to be revised dramatically but we are back to turkeys and Christmas – no MP who benefits wants to make it different.

It't what "we" do though isn't it? Bash away at whoever we blame for the current state of affairs.

The problem we have in the North East is that the Labour party has such a strong hold that they are complacent and don't need to do anything and they will still be voted in. I always think in politics competition or rivalry is a good thing.