Bashing political parties

wheniwas Someone who spoils their vote is not apathetic at all; they're just not counted. It's why a "none of the above" box is required.

No, they aren't counted, but then if you're faced with one of the 3 big parties plus the BNP, for example, what are you supposed to do? Silly question, now I think about it, as the thing to do would be to vote for the big party which has no chance of getting in where you live. At least someone who spoils the paper is less apathetic than someone who doesn't even turn up.

Spoiled votes are not counted so the person who protested by spoiling the ballot paper is just classed as someone who didn't vote and then usually condemned as apathetic. Don't play into their hands. Vote for someone even if it seems pointless.

crimson you are quite right, we must use our votes - even spoiling the ballot paper is better than just not bothering, but voting for somebody who will never get in but is not the BNP or similar is at least a protest vote. Does anyone remember seeing the pictures of South Africans voting for the first time and queuing all day for the privilege? That picture always comes into my mind when I hear people saying that they can't be bothered to vote. Not to mention the women who fought for years for our chance to vote.

Unless we have lots of lurkers who are happy to vote for a party, it seems we are in agreement - we don't like them, we don't trust them and we would prefer not to vote for them. I mean all three of the big parties!

crimson I absolutely agree with you.

I've just googled the Monsters. Their 'Political Position' is described as 'sitting, facing forward'.

That's all the more reason why we have to use our vote, even if we vote for the lesser of two/three/four evils. Because BNP supporters will use their vote [disgust emoticon].

I find myself in a state of confusion and despair of the leaders of all political parties today. I thoroughly agree with absent that those who want to be MPs, ministers and Prime Minister are the very people who should never be allowed near Parliament.
Since the arrival of Blair I voted Tory but last time I could not do that so voted for Lib Dems. I now feel guilty that votes, such as mine, diluted the vote and led to this disastrous coalition. Although I have very little faith in the labour party, I think that a coalition between between Labour and Lib Dems would have been a more natural empathic ? marriage.
I almost envy people living in Scotland and Wales because you do have other alternatives. There is also the fear that far right parties (BNP, UKIP) could rise to power through voting apathy.

What policies would you suggest for a Raving Grannies Party?

crimson I remember the MRLs complaining because there was only one monopolies commission. I have always loved them for that – and for electing Katmandu party leader after Lord Sutch's demise. Perhaps I am not so politically sophisticated as I like to think.

I'm in a political void these days [didn't even watch any of the party conferences; joined the Labour Party after listening to James Callaghan's speech many years ago]. All I know is that I shall never vote BNP but apart from that I don't know where to go. Maybe the problem with the Labour Party is that there isn't a 'working class' any more, just middle class or aspirational middle class or none working class [and by that I don't mean people who can't work through no fault of their own but don't want to work]. I would never judge local MP's by their party; William Hague, I believe is one of the best constituency MP's you could ever have. I cried when Kinnock lost the election, and was euphoric when Blair won and that was the nail in the coffin of my ever having faith in politicians. I hated Mrs Thatcher then, and my hatred hasn't diminished over the years; I think she took everything away from the people in this country that was good and fed off the bad [mainly greed, although one could argue that the unions did the same]. I think if the Monster Raving Loony Party were still going I might vote for them; I seem to remember them having some quite sensible ideas at one time [don't ask me what they were, though]. The Libs have burned their boats with me forever, I'm afraid, which is sad because my local Labour Party and the Libs had strong links and mutual respect round here at one time. I guess that I shall ignore whichever party is in power but still make a point of voicing my opinion against thins I disagree with, either by letter writing or marching; I still believe in 'the power of the pen'.

Wheniwas The trouble is that the electoral system is so flawed that it is almost impossible to change the status quo.

I think one of the problems with political parties is that those who want to be MPs, ministers and Prime Minister are the very people who should never be allowed near Parliament. Those who would be good at these jobs, don't want them and, in any case, even those with good intentions eventually get sucked into the party machine (whatever party).

Round here I've frequently heard people who would consider themselves centre or left-of-centre say that they're very glad we have the SNP to vote for and that they don't know what they would do if they were in England. I suppose if I lived there I would vote Green these days. If enough people did that it would perhaps cease to be a protest vote and become a serious suggestion.

My parents were staunch active Conservatives all their lives. When, aged 19 I joined the Liberals, then a very small party, my mother started warning me of the perils of scientology. I think she thought any one who could join the Liberals could be led astray by any loony group.

In 1979 I thought very hard and nearly voted conservative but there was something about Mrs Thatcher I did not like so I stayed Liberal. In the mid 1980s when my children were in their mid teens I went up to London for a meeting and walking out of Tottenham Court Road tube station I saw children the same age as mine begging in the streets. The visceral shock of seeing children begging, something I had previously thought only happened in third world countries, has never left me. Nothing the Torys have done since has erased my impression of them as the nasty party.

In 1997 I came close to voting labour but I didn't because again there was something about Blair I did not like or trust. His sycophantic relationship with George W Bush which led to him taking us into the Iraq war showed my instinct was right, but what finally finished labour for me was that my experience of labour, going back to Harold Wilson, was of monumental financial and economic incompetence. I thought Gordon Brown was different, but on the contrary, his reckless borrowing and wilful refusal to properly regulate the banks and credit lenders landed us in the worst economic and financial crisisthe country has known in modern times.

Which means I am stuck with the Lib Dems, who have been a deep disappointment since entering the coalition. I have looked at the Greens, great if you believe that mother love and apple pie will solve the country's problems. UKIP? well its anti-European. As they say if you know a better hole.....

My father was a Tory and I've been a Tory too but this time around I haven't a clue. They're all as bad as each other. Even our Tory MP who has done a lot for his constituency is now on a higher plane since his promotion and thinks more along the party line rather than giving his own opinion. There is UKIP. They seem to be keeping quiet at the moment.

granny23 you could be describing Australia's Labor party. I switched my vote to the Greens years ago. I don't believe I should be loyal to a party, especially if I don't agree with their policies.

Absolutely right, vampirequeen. Bringing in A listers from outside has destroyed local democracy.

I have always voted Labour and continue to do so because we have a good Labour MP. I don't know what I will do when he retires. There was a time I would have voted for a chimpanzee as long as it wore a red rosette because I trusted the party. Now I no longer trust them.

Too many MPs these days have never lived in the real world. The Tories never did but Labour MPs went through the system and learned their craft in unions, local councils etc. They learned about electioneering by fighting no win seats before they finally were selected for a seat they could win. Now they go from school to uni to being a researcher at Westminster and then get a safe seat.

Bring back the likes of Dennis Skinner.

As for Maggie. I think she should be buried up north. The turn out for her funeral would be amazing especially if she was in an open coffin so we could go and check that she really was dead. There'd be parties,fire work displays and dancing in the streets and on her grave.

One clique I am happy to be part of Greatnan

I agree with everything you say Granny23 about New Labour, and like you I have no animosity towards supporters of any political party, only their leadership.

Granny23 While the SNP will obviously not be on my ballot paper and I would have some reservations about voting for it if it were, I envy you the option of a party with a clear manifesto and commitment and an acute shortage of career politicians. I feel totally disenfranchised these days.

In my time I have voted (and been a member of) Labour, SDP and Lib Dem. I now find myself with nowhere else to go. Maybe Green, but that would be, at best, a protest vote.

Thanks for starting this thread absent - I feel on much safer ground here than on the religion/spirituality threads

Perhaps, unusually, for a typical, left school at 15, working class woman, I have no antipathy towards the Tories, but black, burning rage towards the 'management' of the Labour Party. This is because the Tories 'do what it says on the tin' i.e. strive to serve their voters - the better off and conservative (note the small C) types, whereas Labour, allegedly the party of the working classes, have long since failed to serve the interests of their supporters, being hell bent on toadying to the middle classes in attempts to gain, regain power. I cannot think of a single person in the current leadership of the Labour Party who has experience of living an ordinary working class life, nor do any of them display a shred of an ideology. There were many fine people in 'Old Labour' - the current bunch are just career politicians, each one jockeying for position and personal advancement (even over their own brother!). NB This tirade is directed against the leadership of the Party - not the foot soldiers or the voters who still support them for want of a better option.

Personally, I have never voted for either big party, being a life long Scottish Nationalist. The SNP has yet to be blighted by 'Career Politicians', although this will probably change now that the Party is enjoying electoral success. The wise choice, until recently, for any Scottish person, wanting to make a career in politics has been the Labour Party, wherein anyone with half a brain could rise, rapidly, to dizzying heights, start wars, wreck the economy, whatever, and safely ignore the 'workers' who continued to vote for them anyway.

Always voted Labour until New Labour in power turned me off. Then Lib Dem but total disregard of pre-election policies and promises once in coalition disillusioned me. I think I'll have to spoil my paper at the next general election. I can't not turn up at the vote - the ghosts of my feminist ancestors would scrag me.

nightowl - I am with you in everything you say. (Does that make us a clique?