Scottish Referendum

Fifty years ago (when I was a young Liberal), the SNP were popularly known as the 'Tartan Tories'. Nowadays they claim to be social democrats. I wouldn't mind betting that there's more than one 'wing' among them.

Yes, of course it would, gracesmum, and one of the first things that would have to happen would be a general election when the SNP would either stand as a left-of-centre party or would split up and reform into other groups. It is hard to get SNP politicians to understand that, although I think some of them are starting to accept it.

Surely as a party, it would lose its raison d'etre and cease to exist?

milkflake, not that I'd trust Alex Salmond 100%, but I don't think 'bumbling idiot' is by any means an accurate description of him. He is a 'politician' in the Shakespearian sense: 'one who would circumvent God', says Hamlet. Salmond is astute and his ability to manipulate opinion is probably unrivalled in these islands. He should not be underestimated - nor should his sidekick, Nicola Sturgeon.
I wonder what would happen to the SNP were the referendum to have a positive outcome. As it's been held together for over 50 years by a single issue, would cracks appear and other parties gain currency once that issue had been resolved?

Were the Union to be dissolved, the Conservative party in England could look forward to a much more secure future as Scottish MPs at Westminster are almost exclusively Opposition.

I rather suspect that people don't care that much – Scottish or English.

I just hope to goodness all who vote will practice the old saying ' Head over heart' because this is not the time for sentiment of any kind. The outcome has the potential to cost us all dearly.

For me the worst part is the brooding dislike between nations who are defending their own corner, which is how it will be!. Families, friends and work mates will be divided and that is the greatest shame of all, to me anyway.

Apparently, the SNP want to remove the nuclear deterent from the Clyde because they want Faslane for "their own Navy". Where are the ships coming from for this navy (ditto the aircraft for their airforce) and who is going to foot the bill? Have I missed something somewhere?

Hi all, I don't pretend to know about the politics or finances of UK/Scotland.

What I will say is I was born in England and belonged to the UK, I have lived in Scotland for all of my adult life and belonged to the UK.

I want to stay part of the UK.

I cant stand Alex Salmond, who on the face of it seems to think all of us in Scotland will be rich because of oil, which wont last forever, or hasn't he thought about that.

As far as letting 16 year olds vote WHY??? They don't get to vote for anything else, I assume he is thinking all the young ones who will be wanting to go to University will vote for him in the hope he can still afford to have their tuition fees paid for them. Them and the folk who think bagpipes ,mountains, heather, whisky and singing Flower of Scotland , will pay for pensions . Not forgetting the drug addicts who seem to get houses and medicines that no one else gets.

I hope the people on benefits think hard about where their money will come from.

I am not a snob at all, but when I saw a group of a certain type of people , rolling around drunk , celebrating the SNP winning again, I cringed.

Sorry about going on, but I, and I fear many many others would jump ship if that bumbling idiot won the referendum.

wheniwasyourage I don't lose friends because we have differing opinions on politics and religion. We just agree never to get nasty with each other during discussions. I tend to keep discussions on the light side to the problem doesn't arise.

What happens when the oil runs out?

When There is a very simple answer to your last question - in one word OIL.

PS: Scotland is also a very convenient place to base nuclear submarines, store nuclear weapons, build experimental nuclear power plants, and dispose of the associated toxic waste, given that it is so far from London.

Going back a bit to where the conversation was about Liz 1 giving England to a Scottish king (who just preferred to live in London) started me thinking about how often Britain, especially recently, has been governed by Scots. Scottish MP's seem good at achieving power. Can the UK ever hope to manage without MP's of Scottish decent?

janthea, I will never agree with you about Mrs T, but I do,of course, respect your right to say what you like about her, just as I do myself, and I hope we will remain friends as GNers.

MargaretX, I agree with you about the awfulness of the LN of the P now, but as I said, it was a long time ago and I was young and unjaded.

absent, one of the annoying things just now is that none of the Unionist groups will say why it is so important for Scotland to stay in the Union, They just say we will come to some sticky end alone and some say that we are being supported by England (and they resent it), so why on earth do they not want us to just push off?

What is very frustrating about this proposal is that Scottish MPs tell us that an independent Scotland is well placed to manage financially while English MPs say that not only could an independent Scotland not manage financially but it would also have huge trouble borrowing what it needed. Both lots just make these statements without giving any background or details so how is anybody supposed to know what to think?

Liligran has beaten me to it. I came onto the computer to tell you all exactly the same piece of news. Well said!
I was surprised but after some thought decided that two years is long enough for it to be cleared up.
Catalonia with their tomatoes and various other perishable vegetables is more dependent on the EU than Scotland.They may not have a football team in the World Cup but they have their own language.

Discussion on BBC 4 News just now - it is by no means certain that if Scotland became independent, it would automatically stay in the EU. Also, there is some considerable twitchiness in Brussels about Scottish independence encouraging the Catalonians and the Flemish (and for all I know, a dozen other countries in the EU with bits wishing to breakaway). I thought the EU was in favour of regionalisation but obviously there are limits.

moomin and annodomini Thanks for your comments. Very sensible ones.

absentgrana I should have said 'possible breakup' I know.

I should also add that I wish we were out of the EU!

I won't be in agreement with you any time soon, janthea, but I'm so glad that you have put your head up above the Conservative parapet. You are certainly entitled to your views.

I won't be berating you janthea and I enjoy Last Night at the Proms (what an ignoramus I must be eh?!) also cheered for Britain at the Olympics and even put a small array of bunting out for the Jubilee

janthea The break up of the Union is by no means certain.

I'm English and proud to be so. I thought Maggie Thatcher was the best PM we ever had (apart from Churchill). I think the breakup of the UK is dreadful. Before anyone starts berating me about this, I'm not getting into a slanging match about my views. They are my views and I'm entitled to them. End of!

anno those All Blacks are magnificent though. I can see the temptation. I have - a rugby supporting hierarchy:
Wales - where i come from
All Blacks - where i would like to be (at least some of the time)
Ireland - where i have many family connections
England - where i live
the rest of the world - dont care who wins
Which is hopefully less jingoistic than the typical Welsh one: I will support any country that is playing against England.
I tried to explain that one to a roomful of Americans once. Which was a challenge.

I also get embarrassed by the mindless jingoism of the Last Night of the Proms. However, I feel sure that I have seen the odd saltire and Scottish Lion flags being brandished by the prommers.

The rest of the concerts are good though, MargaretX. It's only the last night that has Rule Britannia, Jerusalem and the ghastly Land of Hope and Glory, which really annoyed poor Elgar with its jingoism.