Poppies

I believe the origins of the red poppy were to 'remember the fallen' so that the 'war to end all wars' should be just that. It hasn't worked of course but I cannot fault the sentiments behind it - when I wear a (red) poppy I like to think that I am holding to that belief - that one day there truly will be an end to war and bloodshed.

In WW1 every family in the country lost at least one relative, neighbour or friend. My grandmother lost two brothers within a few months, and several cousins. In WW2 she was luckier - her four sons came back alive, though one son-in-law spent time in a German POW camp.

In both of these wars conscription meant that able-bodied men of eligible age had no choice. If this country were to be invaded (God forbid) there would be no choice for the civilian inhabitants, let alone those who had joined the armed forces. Neither do terrorist attacks give anyone any choice.

All-out war, or even armed skirmishes or guerilla warfare, are likely to kill people, that is a fact of life, or of death. Talking is always preferable to force. It should not be abandoned, even when the going is difficult and delicate - and convincing someone with contrary aims and desires and a historical grudge that it is better to agree to differ and to be tolerant of one another than to slug it out is a diplomatic challenge. At the very end of the negotiating process, when talking has failed, it is still possible that force will be used against us, so armed forces are still needed to conduct a defence.

And people are still likely to die or be injured in the attempt and they or their families will need support, financial and personal. Wearing a poppy shows the appreciation of that hard fact. It does not mean that the wearer approves of war.

Hear hear Elegran, JO5 and merlot

I'm just reading The Last Post which is a collection of reminiscences about the wars and lives before and after the two World Wars of those over 100 years of age. It is a remarkable book and what is most poignant for me is that so many of them talk about the futility of war. I wear my poppy in the hope that one day, politicians will learn another way of dealing with aggression. I fear that in some instances, however, fighting may be the only answer and fighting has been the ways and means since time immemorial. I do not watch the religious part of the Remembrance Day service. I find that goes against the grain, but I do wear my poppy in memory of Joe Public who had no idea what he was letting himself in for in the World Wars, and for the families of military personnel today. Having seen fields of poppies in WW1 fields I found it so very moving and it's something small that I can do in their memory.

I can't help feeling that there is something sadly ironic about wearing a poppy for remembrance when for more than ten years British soldiers have been invading and occupying Afghanistan of all places.

For me the point of Remembrance Day is as much about remembering the effects of war as remembering those who died in them.

If it were discontinued, would there be lessening of the memory of just how devastating war is? "The nation that forgets its history is condemned to repeat it"

When I wear my poppy it will be to remember -

The two great-uncles whose deaths left such a hole in my grandmother's family. The great-uncle on the other side of the family, who I know very little about. His brother, who died of TB soon after WW1, triggered by his experiences in the trenches. My grandfather, his lungs damaged by gas, suffering every winter from bronchitis, and eventually dying of lung cancer in 1950

The many spinster teachers in my schools in the 1940s and 1950s, who lost a generation of actual and potential fiances and husbands.

A neighbour's father in 1960, whose leg was still in a leather sheath to support it after it was shattered by a blast in WW1. Her husband, taken into a Japanese POW camp as a young soldier and released four years later totally bald and unable to speak of his experiences to the end of his life.

Grannyactivist's son-in-law, killed by a hidden bomb very recently and leaving a young widow and a baby.

Friends my father made in France in 1940 who did not return to their families. Over 4,000 troops lost in the Lancastria, bombed at St Nazaire on 17 June 1940 while taking part in Operation Ariel, evacuating troops who had not reached the boats at Dunkirk. My father was too late to be on the Lancastria!

And so it goes on.

I wear a white poppy with pride.
My father was born a week after the War to end all wars finished.
He joined the army before the 2nd world war and was at Dunkirk, West Africa, and fought with the Ghurkas in Burma.
My brother was in the army. He was in the first Gulf War.
My sister was in the army as was her husband.
They all know I wear a white poppy and agree with me that there should be peace in this world.
The white poppy is from the Peace Pledge Union. You can look it up on their website.
Conscientious objectors in the first world war were sent to the front line and shot.
In the second world war, they often acted as stretcher bearers. They just would not shoot another man.
The white poppy certainly does have meaning.

Are we doing anything to end wars by selling arms to Saudi Arabia?

merlotgran Conscription in World War 1 was not introduced until 1916. Before that, it was either professional army – a large part of which was wiped out almost immediately – or sadly mistaken volunteering gung-ho patriots who thought it would all be over by Christmas. World War 1 was even more stupid than most of the other wars involving Britain – 1.1 million deaths of Brits and members of the British Empire. Anzacs, Indians and East Africans were all volunteers, poor misled souls.

Many soldiers killed following World War 2 in places such as Korea, Aden and East Africa were conscripts. I think conscription ended in 1960 in Britain.

MrsJamJam I believe the politicians fail us by taking the country to war. Every Prime Minister since Mrs Thatcher and the Falklands has been keen on the idea of a good war – i.e. one where so-called victory comes quickly and reflects glory on them. David Cameron would have had British troops or airforce, possibly both, in Syria if he could have done. Fortunately for those overstretched people referred to as "our boys", he couldn't.

I am not denigrating grieving families or physically and/or mentally wounded service personnel by not wearing a poppy. My anger is not directed at them and I cannot see why they would find comfort in my wearing a symbol of one the human race's greatest mistakes.

Well said Absentgrana. I wear a white poppy to stop poppy sellers asking me to buy a poppy.
I used to live in York, where there are many Quakers. You will find Quakers wearing white poppies for peace.
What worries me at the moment is what is happening in the middle East with Iran and Israel threatening to blow up Iran's nuclear capability.
Why do men feel they have to posture like that?
My son's ex father in law was a chief steward on British Airways. He was one of Saddam Hussein's human shield in the first Gulf war. The plane only stopped for refuelling. The govt. knew that Saddam had invaded Kuwait, but the plane had to stop as there were SAS on board.
So men, women and children who had nothing to do with war were taken hostage.
Nobody ever learns no matter how many poppies we wear and what colour they are.

I've never felt comfortable about wearing a poppy. That discomfort is best expressed in these two quotations from other people:

"if it is a mark of shame to go unpoppied in early November: you are not remembering the dead, you are avoiding social stigma."
Tom Chivers, 31/10/12

"If [soldiers] get injured in the process [of war] it is the government's responsibility to take care of them, not for them to rely on the charity of the public who are already paying for a war that has been going on longer than the second and first World Wars combined." Assed Baig, who wrote the article I linked to in the OP. Governement sends people to war; government should deal with the long term consequences. To 'use' a charity (or charities; the poppy appeal is only one of many doing the same work) to do what needs doing is failing in their duty to people who 'serve' their country in this way.

I wear a red poppy to honour all those young lives lost in the First World War [my uncle being one of them]. How can we try to stop wars in the future if we don't remember how dreadful war is? I don't think of it as being charitable; to me it's my way of being respectful.

My father, who was in Singapore during the 2ndWW, refused to wear a poppy or to have the cenotaph service on the TV. I am sure that this colours my gut instinct not to wear a poppy. It is certainly not because of lack of care or concern for grieving families and wounded young people. He would not outline his reasons for this - it just made him too angry to even speak about it. He would just storm out of the room.

Politicians certainly do fail us by taking the country to war. And their motives are suspect - Mrs Thatcher made much political capital from the Falklands war.

There is a TV programme later this week about Hitler and how he managed to inveigle normal husbands and fathers into becoming mass murderers. It should be interesting - I think it is something that many people puzzle about. My parents-in-law were linguists who finished up as codebreakers in the war. Prior to the war they were studying in Europe - France and Germany - and retained many German friends during and after the war who were pawns in the game just as the British were.

My family support Combat Stress which helps service people who have emotional and mental health problems following their activities. I detest the need to give this support, and wish that I knew how this anti-human activity of war could be stopped.

But I will not wear a poppy.

I wear a white poppy to remember the dead as well.
I used to teach English literature and some of the lessons I remember most were at this time of year when the kids discussed the war poets, Wilfred Owen, Siegfried Sassoon, Edward Thomas. Some of the pupils were so moved that I let them take the lesson while I sat in their seats.
The interesting thing about the Laurence Binyon poem For the Fallen was that it was written just after the outbreak of the first world war and was published in the Times in 1914. Binyon himself did not serve at the front until 1916, when he was a Red Cross orderly. I wonder what the reaction would be if they read Owen's Anthem for Doomed Youth at the cenotaph?

One doesn't need to wear a poppy to remember that war is dreadful. Nor does one need to 'prove' that one is remembering. At least, one shouldn't have to prove it. I don't object to people wearing poppies, but I do object to the pressure there now is to wear one as well: I object to the imposed fear of social stigma that the poppy appeal now exerts.

Poppies are not so much about war, as the the aftermath of wars.

Do these white so-called "poppies" support any good cause at all?

Bags - our posts crossed - I share your concern that soldiers injured as a result of the action of our politicians are insufficiently supported by health and other services and have to rely on charitable donations.

There's no pressure to wear one. It would go much more un-remarked upon if the newspapers didn't spout their usual rubbish articles about it.

So. Did this apply at Xmas when the singing supported "Scotty's little soldiers"?

Why do we feel the need to wear badges and labels? Not wearing a poppy does not reduce my sympathy for war-injured or killed people. Wearing a poppy doesn't increase that sympathy.

There is pressure to wear one. Children in primary schools feel it when they are too young to really understand

Oh for goodness sake! Don't bring children into it!

Just give 'em a pound.

Mine always loved their poppies.

Didn't need to understand fully.

Elegran says what I would like to say...only more eloquently.

I wouldn't bring children into it. It's other people doing just that that I'm objecting to.