Poppies

Indeed we should not forget - one would hope that not forgetting would avoid a repeat performance of sending people to war - but this has not been the case.

As absent says, every death "is a heart-breaking, pointless, wicked obscenity." I do understand the need for acts of remembrance, but it is not getting us anywhere - politicians still back pointless wars.

I suppose that one thing that niggles at the back of my mind is the idea that wars might be perpetuated BECAUSE soldiers have died. I think this was so in Vietnam - announcing that the war had been pointless and it was time to end it led to a sense that these lives had been lost for no reason - how very painful for the grieving relatives - the sense of "writing them off" - perfectly dreadful for everyone concerned.

Respect and love to all those Gnetters who are personally involved in all this with family and friends - my concerns about poppies and their significance do not diminish my respect for them all.

Why, I wonder, did my father refuse to have anything to do with the poppy-wearing? I am sure he had friends whom he wished to honour and remember. I think it was probably because he saw it as having been organised by the very people who sent him to war in the first place, and that they gained stature and credibility fron it all - a bit of spin for them as absent has pointed out.

We should not forget the humanists and atheists either

"Humanists – who are people who aim to live honourable and moral lives without God – have been specifically excluded from any involvement in the design of the existing Remembrance ceremony. We have also been excluded by government from even being allowed to lay a wreath at the Cenotaph ceremony, on behalf of those of no religion. This is unacceptable for a public event that is meant to be all-inclusive"

Tony , I am sure will just as surely as night follows day . wry smile

I completely agree. Thanks for the link B.

I don't wear a red poppy, but would wear a white one if it was available here.

Butty, you can get them from the Peace Pledge Union.
The website is ppu.org.uk
I ask for ten at a time and give them to people who ask about them. Then send off the donations. You probably will not get them for this year, but can keep them safe for next.

Couldn't the humanists have their own ceremony in the afternoon? The one the Queen attends is a Christian ceremony, with clergy and prayers.

Mishap, surely it's governments that send soldiers to war. The British Legion is nothing to do with government. They do wonderful work.

it's not only poppy day

jO5 a) Humanists couldn't avoid conscription on the basis of belief and there are humanists, atheists and agnostics serving today. Why should they not be represented at the Cenotaph? b) The ceremony at the Cenotaph includes representatives of non-Christian religions.

Frankly, I find all this public display of grief and solemnity by political figures who have always been safe civilians and and their playing to camera as empty as the Cenotaph itself, but if there is going to be a public memorial ceremony, then I think it should represent all the public.

jings, I wish I could believe that you don't really favour apartheid in the honouring of dead service men and women

I wish I could believe nobody harbours such stupid prejudices.

Blethering on about honouring the dead and then separating out the ones that are not deemed worthy of the same respect as their comrades in arms.

Sad.

You can always hope, Bags. I wonder what percentage of people serving in the armed forces are Christians? I don't mean those that just put C of E because it seems to be expected of them but those that actually understand what the religion teaches and believe in it.

And then some people wonder why I baulk at wearing a poppy. Look what else it represents.

I have always worn a poppy and will continue to do so. I see it purely as a mark of respect to all who have suffered and died in any dreadful war. My Father served in WW2 and although he returned, he suffered for the rest of his life. He wasn't a hero and he didn't have a choice.

My partner was born in the US. When he was 17, he was sent to Vietnam. When he came back, he burnt every item of his Army kit. He was shunned by his friends, his Father didn't speak to him - he was a loser. He never spoke of it, it was a taboo subject. He is now a British citizen and he wears a poppy because to him it's a mark of respect for men like him, who had no choice and did as they were told. More men committed suicide after the Vietmanese war than were killed in it. Maybe, if you wear a poppy, those that have lost a loved one, or have served themselves might just feel a little less guilty and traumatised.

I think we have to remember and feel grateful. Simple.

If the religious lot have already book the Cenotaph for 11 am, why should the non-religious lot have use of it later in the day. I'm being practical here.

What the fuck has apartheid got to do with anything at all?! well, really!

why shouldn't - not should

what has gone wrong with my typing?

jings You make perfect sense. Simples!

j05 heaven knows, you obviously are suffering major typitis..you must have meant 'what the HEck!!

Sel Yes, of course!

I thought the poppy wreath Remembrance Service was for all the dead, whatever their beliefs. Is it really only for those who called themselves christians?

War dead, I mean. Soldiers, airforce people, sailors.

I know there is a religious element to the service, but I have never for one minute thought that anyone was excluded from the honour paid to the dead by the Queen and the politicians and dignitaries. I always think, when I visit the CWG cemeteries, that it is good that the headstones are not in the shape of a cross (as they are at the American cemetery), but have very personal words and memories. We will go, here in Normandy, wearing our poppies, to the cemetery nearby where three Welsh soldiers are buried, even though the November ceremony is really just for the First World War here. Living here is a constant reminder of how much was sacrificed, in what I will always believe was a just cause, in 1944.

Of course the Remembrance Service is for all the war dead.

I just can't see someone like you being happy to be there Bags given the Christian element involved.

Well I am an atheist and I am happy to be there. I don't join in the prayers, but I recognise that some of my family who died were Christians and some were not. It is remembering and reflecting that matters, not religion or politics.

Yes. You are right Mamie.