Poppies

Do you mean the first Anglo-Afghan war in 1839, absent? The problem is that our history is so complex and interwoven.
I agree about the quality of silence at the services. I was once based in an army school and went to an armistice day assembly. The children could be pretty challenging at times, but I have never experienced the intensity of feeling in the two minutes silence anywhere else. Not surprising, but very moving.

More or less Mamie except I think 1839 saw the outbreak of the First Opium War with China, while the Firs Afghan War started in 1838. There were – and still are – so many wars. I agree with Greatnan that a list of the newly killed evokes deep sadness but I find it also evokes great anger.

Yes, I mentioned that I was angry too. I am very careful what I say because I have a Facebook friend who has a son and a Daughter-in-law currently serving in Afghanistan. I am not sure how much of the political situation they understand - to them, they are doing their duty and I am not going to suggest that the colleagues they have lost died in vain.
It is 'the donkeys', not 'the lions' that incur my wrath.

Yes you are right, absent, the invasion was December 1838. Have you read "Afgantsy" about the Russians in Afghanistan? Fascinating stuff.

Greatnan Your Facebook friend's son and daughter-in-law aredoing their duty in the sense that they are obeying lawful orders. Morality is another issue and one that governments seem to take little notice of. I can see that it must be almost unbearable for families and friends to think of young men and women dying in vain in senseless wars and occupations. That bloody McCrae Flanders Field poem only fosters the feeling that the dead must be avenged and somehow validated by killing other young men and women.

My grandfather never recovered from having had to kill a young German soldier in Flanders. It was kill or be killed, but he found photos and letters to the boy's mother in his pocket. He would never take part in any ceremonies and rejected his campaign medals.

My dad too refused to have his medals.

Mamie I haven't read that. I'll look out for it. Thanks.

When I went on a visit to the National Memorial Arboretum, I was shocked and saddened by the register of names of young people killed in wars since the end of the Second World War.

I too was traumatised by the walls at the top of the hill anno but at least I'm glad I've been there.

my son was in 2nd Royal Tank Regiment, sadly a lot of his pals were lost in Iraq and Afghanastan.

The wars there are not like the World Wars but if you join the Forces then you have to accept it is a huge commitment.

The loss of young life is absolutely appalling, we live near a garrison town and is beyond heartbreaking the young Dads and husbands who do not return.

We attended the open air Remberance service near us and it struck me how much more crowded it was and so many younger people, it was lovely and very poignant mark of respect to the soldiers who gave their tomorrows for our Today.

We should get out of Afghanistan and just keep our 'defence forces' for that! DEFENCE!

Well said jeni.

Hear, hear!

I think the original justification for invading Afghanistan was that it was harbouring existing and potential terrorists. According to that that thinking we should, presumably, invade Pakistan, Saudi, Yemen, etc. etc.
There is undoubtedly widespread resentment throughout the Arab/Muslim world about the Israel/Palestine situation, but there also exists a certain number of fundamentalists who wish to impose Islam on us all. They won't be stopped by military means, only through education.
The USA wanted revenge for 9/11 and Britain wanted to please the USA. When will they learn that you cannot succeed by force in a country where the bulk of the population are not on your side.

Greatnan NATO was also part of the process for invading Afghanistan but it is interesting which countries ended up fighting in Helmund and which ended up sitting around in Kabul.

I think the war in Afghanistan is and was about defence.

But I don't think anyone at the time knew what a high price would have to be paid.

I just hope they can finish the job to the best end possible, and then get the troops out as quickly as possible.

Jingle - how will they know when they have finished the job? Has 'the job' been spelt out?

Good question Greatnan. Sigh.

The 'job' I was referring to was, of course, getting rid of the terrorist factions.

If we accept that getting rid of terrorist factions is the aim of the exercise, it is doomed to failure. It is a hydra-headed monster. Every killing of a 'terrorist' will encourage a hundred other young men to fight what they see as an attempt to eliminate their culture.
The home-grown security forces have carried out several attacks on Allied troops.
I wish we would just pull out now, even though I am filled with rage at the Taliban's attitude to women. I don't think that attitude will be changed by force.

My son, the journalist, will be spending Christmas with the troops in Afghanistan.

There has been endless mission shift in Afghanistan, so the job, whatever it is, is unlikely ever to be "done". As for getting rid of the terrorists – they've done that, they're all in Pakistan now.

Good luck to your son, soop - he's a brave young man.