Poppies

As usual Elegran an articulate post which I agree with totally.

Do not dirty the emotions of those who mourn by implying that they are jingoistically glorifying war and death.

Going to a funeral wearing something black to remember someone who has died is not glorifying death. It is mourning the one who is gone and expressing your sympathy and support for those affected by it.

Giving money to a charity and wearing the yellow daffodil or pink ribbon you were given in exchange for your donation is not glorifying cancer. It is acknowledging the powerful effects of that disease and contributing to combatting it.

Donating to a fund to help those damaged by war and wearing a poppy is not glorifying war. It is remembrance of those who have died in war, and giving to provide comforts for them and those close to them.

Remembrance Day is a day of sadness for many many people who have lost their loved ones through several generations and know what deprivations that brings.

Campaigning against all war is a legitimate but separate exercise.

It is sad that young people feel they have to join the forces because they cannot get a job.

I was taught by my father that the first world war was entirely about putting money in the coffers of the armaments industry. It led to the conditions which allowed Hitler to rise to power. However, I don't see how the Allies could not have stopped his attempt to dominate Europe. Britain could have done much more to protect the Jews in the 1930's, but there was plenty of anti-semitism around many countries of Europe. Collective guilt led to the birth of Israel, with all the misery that has engendered.

Most of the war poets were aware of the useless waste of young lives and despised the rhetoric of 'Pro patria mori'. I like 'I vow to thee my country' as a hymn, but totally oppose all that it stands for.

I agree that few young people are probably aware of all that they are signing up for - although the past few years have surely shown that being a soldier is not all about learning to ski and having a good time with your mates. The amazing thing to me is that so few of those coming home without limbs express any bitterness - but I expect their parents do.
I don't wear a poppy because I live in France, but I watch Remembrance Sunday on TV and feel tearful when I see the veterans, who are still so proud of what they did. There were heroic deeds done, but I think they were mainly prompted by concern for comrades, rather than 'King and Country'. I am with the Oxford Union on that.

My grandson is signing on for 18 years in the Royal Navy. Like many young people in times of high unemployment, he is just desperate to start any kind of work. He will be trained as a specialist Mine Clearance Diver - he loves diving and he didn't need any 'A' levels to be accepted. My opinion was not sought, and I honestly don't know what I could have said. I see no prospect of a better employment situation in the Hull area, and after a few more years on JSA he would become unemployable. I gather that the work mainly entails clearing shipping lanes of unexploded mines left over from previous wars. He will not be in combat, although he has to have the ten week basic training. I am just glad he is not joining an infantry regiment.

Keep your hair on JO5

I wear a poppy to remember those who were killed in wars and to help those who served and now need our help.

Yesterday I bought 2 raffle tickets from 2 soldiers who were raising money to send boxes to soldiers serving in Afghanistan (I chose to support them because, as soldiers themselves they know what a serving soldier would want).

I don't support war but I do support our soldiers

And pride in our British Legion.

I am now going out shopping. I will wear my poppy with pride. Our armed forces are something to be proud of.

OR, wear it with pride for the bravery of our young people.

That has nothing to do with politicians.

Whatever their ability to make judgements, they still need help when they come home wounded.

You don't have to wear your poppy with pride. Just buy it.

I never said that Nanadog! Do NOT put words in my mouth!

That makes no difference to anything at all!

Young people go off and do brave things. Ok, so it may be because youth seeks thrills and adventure. But they still get the job done. Whether the politicians get it right, or not, they are the ones who need help when things go drastically wrong for them

Wearing a poppy is never going to perpetuate war.

Well - I am with him all the way on this, and I agree with absent.

It is hard to say it because it sounds as though you are not in favour of supporting damaged soldiers and their families. The emotional impact of an injured young man or woman does not pass me by - and I have to respect those members of the armed forces who are motivated by a belief in the causes for which they are sent to fight - and also respect for those sons and daughters of gransnet members who are in the forces and who face the daily worry about their wellbeing and safety. My heart goes out to them.

But I have always felt quite squeamish about wearing a poppy - for me it skates on the borders of glorifying the concept of war - it has always felt so to me. I do understand that for many veterans this was a profound time of their lives and they need to mark this in some way. I applaud the bravery of those who helped to defend this country in the last century.

But we seem to be bad at preventing further wars, and those that are currently and have recently been fought in our name (with our money and tacit blessing) are hard to justify morally.

Whilst there are many intelligent young people who choose to join the forces, my experience as a SW is that the "squaddies" in the lower ranks are frequently (but not always) young people from troubled backgrounds for whom education has failed and who cannot find a place in society. Their ability to make judgements about what they are taking on is seriously impaired.

"Ours is not to reason why. Ours is but to do and die" ????? JO5????

jO5 Perhaps if a bit more "thinking" had gone in the past, there would be fewer bereaved families and war wounded ex soldiers.

We wear a poppy because we give MONEY for them. And military bereaved families and war wounded ex soldiers need help.

Don't think. Just buy one. And give a decent amount.

White poppies are a load of rubbish. They do no good to anyone.

Too much "thinking" goes on these days.

White poppies are for conscientious objectors, so I could legitimately wear one of those. However, I don't want to wear a poppy at all. I don't think that many people have given their lives rather than had their lives cruelly and wantonly taken from them. Just as only a few soldiers, sailor and airmen are actually heroes whatever the tabloid papers say.

It is possible to buy white poppies which give out a far stronger message than not wearing one at all. Personally I have no problem wearing a poppy as I do so in remembrance of those who gave their lives including members of my family. I am still opposed to war.

He makes some valid points but I don't think everyone who signs up to be a soldier really does understand what they are committing themselves to – especially those the Sun always refers to us "our squaddies". While army recruitment may not be quite so blatantly untruthful as that depicted in the film Private Benjamin, I think it may be misleading, especially for the not very bright.

I don't wear a poppy and I profoundly believe that it is an appallingly immoral act for old men to send young men (and these days, women too) to die.

It's another point of view and one which needs to be heard.