Welfare cash cards

Abuse of the emergency payment fund is wide spread. To my knowledge one of my stepdaughters has falsely claimed several hundred pounds from it and then spent the money on partying and holidays. Any system that can prevent that is welcome. In my opinion needing cigarettes or booze is NOT an emergency.

Resurrected this thread because it really is beginning to happen. Local councils are issuing food stamps or cards which must not be used for tobacco, alcohol or gambling.

I fear not - I think there are smug, comfortable people who really do want to see others humiliated even more than they already are by being forced to claim the benefits to which they are entitled. They have swallowed the line taken by some newspapers that everyone is a scrounger and no amount of correct statistics is going to change their blinkered view.

My posts were all serious. I don't want my benefits paid on a card. I am quite able to decide what to buy and where to buy it. I'm also make sure I pay my rent.

Is this another one of those arty farty threads in which people are putting forward dogmatic opinions, pretending to be serious?
Hasn't this sort of thing been done on the radio by people like Alan Partridge?

oooh Greatnan

Did someone mention 'the deserving poor'?

Don't 'assume' they were right wing without evidence please. That's when trouble starts and finger wagging comes in and threads end in acrimony.

There are threads running at the moment that are obviously challenging a political view, because of the declaration by the poster of his/her political affiliation. Therefore debate and comments that follow are perfectly justified, whether or not they are to our own personal liking.

I think there has been some good bish bashing lately and, yes, there may have been a few low level insults flying but we are, in the round, still interested in posting.

Absent I must have missed them!

I think I was really contrasting Ivan's willingness to stop aid with his socialist ideals; some grans do express rightist views so maybe it's not so obvious or contradictory for them to have advocated stopping overseas aid.

You're right absent but not by people with Ivanhoe's avowed political views.

Riverwalk I think you may be mistaken. Overseas aid is a topic that has come up on more than one occasion and the misunderstood quotation of "charity begins at home" has been bandied around. I am pretty sure that the suggestion of stopping overseas aid has been made.

I find it curious, given his views, that Ivanhoe would stop Overseas Aid - I don't think even the most right-wing of grans on the board have advocated this!

So you care about the poor in this country but not about the poor in the rest of the world.

Poverty in this country rarely leads to starving to death or dying of some horrible but preventable disease. Poverty in the developing world often means just that. Workers in this country have some protection. Workers in the developing world often have none.

You say you're a socialist. If that's the case then you should be thinking of the workers and the oppressed throughout the world not just in this country. Socialism has a world view which encompasses all.

Although I don't totally agree with the International Socialist Movement it's aims and beliefs regarding an end to war, racism and poverty are fair more in line with my beliefs than yours.

The International Socialist Organization has branches across the country. Our members are involved in helping to build a number of struggles: the movement to stop the war on Iraq, fights against racism and anti-immigrant scapegoating, the struggle for women's rights like the right to choose abortion, opposing anti-gay bigotry, and standing up for workers' rights. We are committed to building a left alternative to a world of war, racism and poverty.

www.internationalsocialist.org/

vampirequeen , if need be, yes.

Ivanhoe are you suggesting we stop foreign aid?

Charity begins where the need is greatest, regardless of nationality, creed or politics.

Ivanhoe I don't think that's such a clear cut issue as it seems. Yes, if you consider you are going without then foreign aid and/or participation in foreign wars might seem wrong. Often though Governments think they can 'get something out of it' and typically that means trade and influence in the future. That might have been what motivated Tony Blair but in his case, on a personal level.

Yes Sel, and our MP's get more, dont they. If we are so in dept, how come we can still afford foreign wars, and to uphold third world countrires. ?

Surely charity, as they say, begins at home ?

Ivanhoe I would suggest you Google a historic graph on Government debt as it would be too boring and time consuming to reproduce here and I have stuff to do It's also useful to look at the European countries that are up the creek, financially and to realise that we're not that far behind them. Everyone wants more.

Sel, For over 30 years the Tories initially lead by Margaret Thatcher kept our low
waged economy in place, without any social policy at all.

New Labour came in, in 1997 and inherited a massive rich and poor divide, whilst also keeping income tax low for everybody, including the rich.

So, somehow dept has been built up by previous right wing Governments, but again it is the poor who have to take the brunt of all of this.

Can you please tell; me why ?

Ahhh, you're correct Ivanhoe I didn't answer your question. I think the clue to the answer is in the question 'when it's needed' That's another debate isn't it? Is it really needed or just desired? To whom shall we pay this money? Should you only receive the money if you have paid in? How does the State pay it's debts? We've had many years of profligrate government under NEW Labour and the resultant debt is huge, how do we service this debt and still continue to pay those who need support?

Sel, clearly you didnt grasp what I said. Here we are again.

""Then why am I and millions of other working people paying into "STATE" coffers taxes and NI contributions, if not to help ourselves and others when it is needed"" ?

Ivanhoe you and millions of working people are paying into State coffers, a percentage of your income. That income comes from a wage unless it is unearned.

The Labour party was founded on Socialist principles surely?

Sel, then why am I and millions of other working people paying into "STATE" coffers taxes and NI contributions, if not to help ourselves and others when it is neeed ?

Answer me that please.!

P.S.., Britain has never had a socialist Government.

Ivanhoe I'm sure your heart is in the right place - helping the poor is very laudable but someone has to provide the money to do so. As a country without many natural resources, businesses have to generate wealth to enable the poor and needy to be looked after. A Government which supports businesses and lessens the laws that hampers their growth is ultimately a good thing surely?

You seem to hanker back to pre war days when there was a need for the old Socialist regime. It's probably impossible for you to understand that many people are capable of looking after themselves and do not want 'The State' to do so. Obviously, there are some who will, through no fault of their own, need that care and they should and are, cared for. If you think not, I suggest you compare the benefits available here to some other countries.