Two appalling stories

Appalling and heartbreaking. What ignorance there is in the world

It is also heartbreaking how awful it be for girls, women AND young boys in this so called civilized, caring, christian culture. I am astonished at the way various commentators and the media have leapt on to the band wagon, condemning entire countries and cultures because of some high profile cases there when our own 'house' is certainly not in good order and rape, child abuse and sexual assault are still commonplace. I do welcome the increasing public anger, both here and abroad and hope that we can all move forward in finding ways to end these horrendous crimes.

Spot on, Granny 23. I completely agree.

Granny23 this is no longer a Christian country - even if the Queen is head of the Church of England. There are far too many other religions here now to call this country a Christian country - but civilised and caring we are supposed to be and don't always act. Sorry to say it but I just hate the fact that it is deemed here that only Christians know how to behave.
As to BAnanas comments. Doesn't take your breath away when you hear such comments as made by the guru - I think India is trying very hard to modernise but it will take years. I think the 20 to 30 year old Indians will be totally different to their parents, far more western. They are lovely people so we must give them time.
As for Saudi - its completely under the thumb of its ruling classes and they are happy to keep it that way. As for the poor little girl married off to the 90 year old, once he dies she will be 'nothing' in the eyes of that society and be a virtual servant/slave to that family if her family can't pay back bride money. Then she will become the servant/slave of her family - she will probably never be married again of if she is it will be to a widower who wants his children cared for. As women are totally locked away, it's a brave one who rebels - it will come though but maybe not in our lifetime.

Thank goodness for the Internet. When these outrages go viral and the whole world comment and condemn such barbaric events then a light is shone onto dark and nasty corners of our wold and things will change.

I wasn't trying to single out any particular culture and to say how badly they treat their women, I know that we are not perfect in the West, it was as doresetpennt said the so called guru's comments took my breath away.

I am reading a great book called Here be Dragons by S Penman. Historical novel about Kind John and Prince Llewellyn - she makes the point that Magna Carta limited women's rights even more than was the case previously. It was an incredibly male dominated culture in which there was a great deal of fighting. And of course the most powerful political force of the day was the vatican. Male dominated religious power to add to the power of the sword.
It is only in the last 150 years that things have really improved for women in our culture but there is still a long way to go. I am heartened that young women seem to be waking up to this fact after a couple of decades of pretending that women are equal. But India and Saudi are in many respects back where we were in 1200 AD.

Magna Carta was signed back in 1215, but as you say Jess things only improved for women in the West in recent history. Society was of course bound by the feudal system back in the Middle Ages where the church had an enormous amount of power. Most of the world religions seem to be patriarchal, tell me about one that isn't, and are designed to keep women compliant and submissive and it seems that some women are being dragged back into a time where a woman's place was always in the wrong.

I was rounding to the nearest 00s bananas comes of being a scientist and not a historian.
yes quite all major religions run by men, for men.

Sorry Jess, I wasn't nit picking about the date, there are only a few exact ones that stick in my mind this is one and 1066 is another, but I tend to be vague about most and usually just say 12th or 13th century for example.

Bananas I was not intendeding any critiscism of your good self - I totally agree that it is right to be outraged by such outrages. My anger is directed at the right wing press who, with fake self-rightousness, are cynically using these tragedies as evidence in their campaign to demonise certain cultures and faiths. It is the same tactic used in the Southern states of the US when 'Black man rapes white woman' was an atrocity and all blacks were therefore animals, whereas 'white man rapes black woman' was not worth a mention. The real issue of endemic violence and abuse of women is not addressed because each instance is blamed on these horrible 'others' never on our own societal norms.

It was only in 1994 that marital rape became illegal in Britain and only in 1964 were women able to keep half the money given to them by husbands.

There are more women politicians in many percieved 'developing' countries than in England!

I agree that sometimes sections of the media deliberately whip up xenophobic attitudes by the way they report stories.

It is appalling that so many women & children are still seen as chattels by some men /cultures... but sadly terrible stories happen everywhere and no group/society should feel smug!

I think it's fair to say that the story was reported right across our press spectrum because it seems to have been a pivotal case in India in galvanising a wave of opposition from both men and women that the female sex have had enough of the sexual abuse and harassment that they are having to put up with. For me the reporting was more about a shift in attitudes in a rapidly changing country where women are challenging the status quo and asking for their voices to be heard rather than a finger wagging exercise.

I think it's fair to say that the story was reported right across our press spectrum because it seems to have been a pivotal case in India in galvanising a wave of opposition from both men and women that the female sex have had enough of the sexual abuse and harassment that they are having to put up with. For me the reporting was more about a shift in attitudes in a rapidly changing country where women are challenging the status quo and asking for their voices to be heard rather than a finger wagging exercise.

Yes nanaej I agree about women politicians in developing countries, I remember Mrs Bandranake (probably wrong spelling) of Celyon now Sri Lanka, Mrs Ghandi of India, Golda Meyer of Israel, all I think before we had a female PM and then lately Benazir Bhutto of Pakistan.