Britain's basic State pension. Do we revere our elderly people in this country ?

Greatman, Atos is killing the disabled. The government are letting the pensioners freeze and go hungry

And I want Greatman to put up his own posting about Atos. And not to hijack my posting.

Greatman, Again the Tories are using the deficit as a cover to weaken the welfare State and role back the State because they dont believe in either.

As an aside Ivan, in geo-political terms Iraq and Afghanistan are not the 'far east' which you've mentioned in a few threads.

Yes, I had my facts wrong - 0.7% of GDP.
Has it been suggested that the State Retirement Pension should be means -tested?
At the moment, my chief concern is about the iniquitous ATOS - where people are told they are fit for work if they could work with a guide dog - even though their home or disability may not be suitable for a dog.
Things are going to get a lot worse - apparently another one million public sector employees will be made redundant, swimming pools and libraries will close, roads will go unmended. I am so glad one of my daughters emigrated to New Zealand.
And still nobody has been held to account for the financial disaster and bankers continue to receive huge bonuses. The Fraud Squad and the Financial Services Authority are jokes.

Apart from the greedy and morally-bankrupt bankers, the blame for the current mess cannot be laid at the door of just one party as many posters have said.

Pardon me for being silly.

I was just hoping to engage in some serious debate about Overseas Aid - presuming this is the billions that you are talking about.

Unless you're a member of the BNP you must surely accept that much of this so-called 'aid' is really a way of bolstering British industry and influence. It comes with strings.

0.07% of GDP , I believe, goes in overseas aid. Apart from the humanitarian aspect, the hope is that the countries helped will buy our goods and services.
Since very many of us are pensioners, I am sure we are all in favour of decent pensions. I just don't know any pensioners who are on the basic pension.
I am greatly in favour of stopping wasting money on inefficient defence procurement, dodgy providers of services such as employment placing, highly paid advisors, many from the large accountancy firms that are advising companies on tax avoidance, closing all the loopholes, and stopping the MP's gravy train.
Do you approve of my ways of saving money, Ivanhoe? We would all be interested to know your own recommendations, I am sure.

The UK has promised to spend 0.7 per cent of national income on overseas aid in 2013. I think we can spare it, don't you Ivanhoe? Especially, as you pointed out yourself, we're not a poor country.

Riverwalk. I'm not being rude. Your question is just too silly for words.

Instead of being rude to me, why not answer my question?

Riverwalk. Now you are just being silly.

What billions Ivan?

gillybob , Britain is just not a poor country. Look at the billions we send overseas on a regular basis annually.

Plus fighting wars in the far east.

I have always believed the younger generations should be fighting on behalf of their parents and grandparents for a decent State pension, and in doing so they would also be fighting for themselves.

I started fighting on behalf of the old in my 40's and I'm still doing it.

I don't think anyone wants the elderly to be poor - after all most contributors are pensioners themselves , and it seems that most agree that the elderly should get enough to live on, therefore this does feel a bit like preaching to the converted... Just saying

Ivanhoe what is the response you're hoping for from Gransnetters? What is it you would like us to/think we should do? It's been my experience that gransnetters are a caring group and will often sign petitions and write to/email their MP's. Perhaps it would be helpful to signpost people to actions they can take. For example they could sign this petition:
actions.ageuk.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=31&ea.campaign.id=17177

I left this thread because I thought it was about to become another vitriolic one. It was not a case of "flouncing", I assure you. Just needed to say that.

I haven't done any stomping...

Yes, but in all fairness, Mr Paxman and Mr Humphreys don't go stomping out when the 'grilled' don't answer their questions directly.

gracesmum It's fine really. These days I answer to Gillybob, Billygob, Gollybob, Bollygob !!!

I'm sorry you perceive those who attempt to debate with Ivanhoe as a clique of bullies. I have also tried to follow this argument and while Ivanhoe's statistics may well be right (I am not querying them) I have also been aware of his unwillingness to give a straight answer when asked an equally straight question. This is not unlike politicians interviewed on radio or TV who to the exasperation of Jeremy Paxman or John Humphreys refuse adamantly to respond to their requests to "Answer the question please!"

I am still unclear as to what it is that Ivanhoe is trying to prove. Parrying questions with further statistics is a recognised ploy, but one which does not facilitate productive debate.

Finally poor Gillybob - I trust it was a simple typo and not a Freudian slip to call her Gillygob -that was unfair!

Ivanhoe I am not doubting your figures in the slightest. But it all boils down to the fact that you cannot get blood out of a stone. If there is no money, there is no money. Yes in an ideal world pensioners should get more money but where would it come from? The young people who are already giving everything they can give?

You ask if my son and DIL are making private pension provision and I will be totally honest with you. If they can barely afford to heat their home, feed and clothe their children, pay ridiculous nursery fees etc. How the hell can they make private pension provision? I think today's pensioners are probably the lucky ones if I am honest. If when I ever get to retire (I am 51) I wonder will there be a state pension? When (or if) my children/grandchildren get to retire I honestly do not think there will be such thing.

giilygob,

The annual cost of delivering the basic State pension to each pensioner in this country is just £5.40. There are 12 million pensioners. Means-testing pensioners via Pension Credit costs £53.70 , So, means testing pensioners costs more of tax payers money.

The Tories are conning the whole country by stating that up rating the State pension is not affordable. And the media are going along with this. Nobody is challenging this.

I'm sick of the bull coming from both the media and the politicians, I'm sick of the lies, I'm sick of politicians with no integrity whatsoever.

Millions of our elderly people are having to choose between heating their homes and buying food, 1 in 5 from 12 million are suffering hypothermia related illness due to lack of money to live on.

And thousands of pensioners are dying of cold through the winter months. latest figures reveal that Winter deaths in this country claim 200 pensioners a day.

Britain's basic State pension for single pensioners is ""£107- 45p a week"", this following a 30, 40, and 50 year working life paying into the system taxes and NI contributions.

Tell me something, with your son and daughter in law working damned hard, are they also making provision for a private pension in their old age, while hoping that the private company they fund into, wont go bust in our seemingly favoured market lead system ?

Ivanhoe my gran is 96 she lives on the state pension, plus pension credits and various other small amounts of benefits to which she is entitled. At this time of year the heating in her bungalow is on for approximately 18 hours per day 7 days a week. She eats very well and wants for nothing.

My son and daughter in law have three small children. They both work (bloody hard I might add) . They have a horrible key meter for their fuel and often have no money to top it up. Which would mean they would literally freeze (if we were not able to step in and help them out).

How on this earth can my son and DIL pay any more in taxes than they already do?

Is this fair?

Ivanhoe, I don't doubt your statistics. What does puzzle me is your refusal/inability to suggest a solution. Why should such an exercise demean our generation? I am no more a supporter of the present government than you are (though you did say you voted Tory, didn't you?) but what we need is constructive solutions. Protest without substance behind it is pointless. I personally would advocate the abandonment of the so-called nuclear deterrent for a start. And that has probably started another hare running.

I became exasperated because Ivanhoe refuses to give answers to straightforward questions, Goose. How can it be called a debate when one party is putting forward the same points all the time, but not explaining how he would do things differently, and where the money would come from to give pensioners such a huge increase?

I followed this thread along with 'The Reality Behind the Deficit Cutting' (both by the same poster) with great interest.
It's been a lively debate, with both sides putting their views forward clearly. As it's about politics, of course it became heated.
However, I'm so disappointed that it's ended up with a little gang (not clique) of bullies throwing their toys out of the pram and flouncing out of the door, banging it behind them, simply because someone disagrees with what they are saying and sticks to their own point of view. Isn't this what debating is supposed to be about? I'm not sticking up for Ivanhoe, I'm sure he can look after himself.
It's so disappointing that so many threads on GN seem to end up this way.
I don't often stick my head over the parapet, only unless I have something I feel is important (to me) to say.
I have written a similar message on the other thread 'The Reality Behind the Deficit Cutting'
I'll leave by the front door....

POGS. Cold kills 200 British pensioners a day during winter. Britain has 12 million elderly people.

“”Nine elderly people died every hour from cold-related illnesses last winter against a background of soaring energy bills.

Official figures show the number of deaths linked to cold over the four-month period reached 25,400 in England and Wales, plus 2,760 in Scotland.

Charities and energy company critics claim the UK has the highest winter death rate in northern Europe, even worse than much colder countries such as Finland and Sweden.

Winter worries: More than 300,000 UK pensioners have died of cold related illnesses since 1997

There are fears the toll could rise this year following a recent barrage of price rises that may frighten elderly people into not turning on their heating.
Heated issue: Pensioners see rising fuel bills and worry about whether they can afford to warm the house

While the UK death rate is high, the total was down by around 30 per cent compared with 2008/9 because there were fewer flu outbreaks, according to the Office for National Statistics.

The Coalition government has cut the last administration’s Winter Fuel Allowance payments of £250 for pensioners and £400 for those over 80, by £50.

ENERGY BILL RISES
Energy providers have announced big rises in prices this winter.
• Scottish Power is increasing electricity bills by 8.9 per cent.
• Scottish & Southern Electricity is putting up gas by almost 10 per cent.
• British Gas announced a 7 per cent rise on gas and electricity
Michelle Mitchell, director of the charity Age UK, said:'It’s still unacceptable that in this day and age tens of thousands more older people die in this country every winter from the effects of the cold weather.

'As another winter sets in, plummeting temperatures will once again spell misery, ill-health and, in some cases, even death for too many people in later life across the country.

'The simple fact that the UK has one of the highest winter mortality rates in Europe – higher than even Sweden or Finland – makes it clear this is very much a home-grown problem.

The fact is the UK’s elderly have seen their living standards plummet since the 80’s, and as a result millions of pensioners have and are living in poverty, after paying taxes and N.I. Contributions into the system all their working lives, ie for 30, 40, and 50 years.

And the same thing is going to happen to young people also, if things don’t change for the betters, soon.