Urban foxes

Here, here Granjura. In North America anyone who drops foody litter or leaves food around is quickly told the error of their ways. Bears are a little more dangerous than foxes but the principle is the same.

Any animal can carry disease. Deer can carry TB just as well as any badger for instance. Nobody is talking about culling them all.

The problem with urban foxes is that too many people feed them. STOP FEEDING THE URBAN FOXES - when food drops, their numbers will drop too. And they will switch to eating vermin like rats - and will again play a really useful role as 'cleaners' - just as they do for all the rabbits and rats in the countryside.

Strangely enough, the death rate for lambs is the same on Scottish islands where there are NO foxes, as in parts of the Uk where they are plentiful.

Foxes are cleaners, and they will take lambs, but usually weak and poorly ones, who are unlikely to survive anyway. Exposure to wet, cold and windy weather, etc, lack of food and poor husbandry/lack of care is by far the biggest killer.

Foxes carry diseases. I have caught mange from a fox, indirectly, via my dog. Very unpleasant and difficult to get rid of. Foxes have no natural predators. Urban foxes have become too bold as they do not have such easy access to rubbish since wheelie bins have been introduced. Since fox hunting was banned they have become more prevalent in the countryside. They attack and kill small animals like lambs and chickens. So do we just let them continue to proliferate? I say no. We need to cull them. The most humane way is to trap them and then shoot them. The most humane way I think. Also the RSPCA, I believe, do trap them now in cities and then take them to the countryside to release them. That is madness! They should then kill them, not just move the problem from one area to another.

Not so sure about that, nightowl. There have been quite a few reports of pets being killed or attacked where my daughter lives just outside Gosport. I saw more foxes on a walk back from a local restaurant than I have in the last twenty years where I live in the country.

I don't think there have actually been that many incidents in the last couple of years Lilygran. Such attacks are very rare indeed and as others have said it is always difficult to prove that they were caused by a fox. I also believe that foxes very rarely attack domestic pets, they are very timid animals and will not usually take on a cat, let alone a dog.

I don't quite get your last paragraph, granjura although I agree with the dog theory. What does the hunting fraternity et al have to do with this?

There have been half a dozen cases over the last couple of years of children being attacked by foxes, to say nothing of cats and small dogs being killed. Foxes will also attack new lambs and other small mammals. As someone already said, a baby is a small mammal. I'd be interested to know how the pro-fox posters explain the slaughter of domestic fowl. Of course foxes will go into houses. How do they know what a house is? They go in barns and hen houses looking for food, why not any open door? Foxes aren't wicked to behave in this way, they are just being foxes. So we have to stop treating them as shy pets.

I am not saying this did not happen- but it does sound very strange indeed.

And I am not saying this is the case, but could the family dog have done it- and they invented the fox story to save the dog?

And I am not saying this is the case either- but the hunting fraternity are really furious about the hunt ban, the not going ahead of the badger cull- and stressed out (not surprisingly) due to the economic crisis and all sorts of animal/disease, etc issues. And it could push some a bit too far?

Me too Nightowl. Cant help but wonder can you. I have had a whole family of them in my garden. They are terrified of people usually, seems very strange that a fox would come into a house.

This will all die down and be forgotten anyway when something more newsworthy happens, so I think the urban fox is safe. But what we must do is respect it as a wild and potentially dangerous animal, respect being the operative word. Don't regard it as a Beatrix Potter type cute animal but respect that it has as much right to survive as we do. Difficult to get the balance right especially when us humans get involved [have just been watching the programme about Ice Age survivors on BBC4],

Well said Nightowl and Granjura

merlotgran - i am agreeing with you - but all animals learn through experience, I lived on the edge of a rural village backing on to open fields and countryside, and never once saw a fox, until about 2 years after the ban, and then rarely.

When I lived in Poole I saw them every day in the back garden !

I agree with every word, granjura
nightowl, Culling, vermin control, whatever you like to call it does not mean eradication.

My fourteen year old GD is now afraid to walk their Jack Russell because she has twice been followed by a fox and the dog is so afraid she has to carry him home and that's a TERRIER.

Foxes would indeed do a much better job at catching vermin like rats if they were not hand fed steak in people's gardens. And of course they do an excellent job of killing our far too numerous rabbits and rats in the countryside, that have NO other predators.

When and if the case is proven - then that rogue fox needs to be dealt with. Attracting it with bait and cleanly shot. Some others in the area may be unfairly put down - and that is a risk I can accept.

Killing a whole species because of a very rare rogue individual is just totally disproportionate and makes no sense. BUT WE MUST STOP FEEDING URBAN FOXES - OR THEY WILL SUFFER. Research at Bristol university has clearly shown, again and again, that foxes are extremely good at controlling their own numbers, in % to food availability, habitat, etc. When food is scarce, and conditions not good, only main vixen will breed and only have about 2 cubs. When conditions are good and plenty of food, all vixens of age will breed, and have 4-5 cubs. Feeding also makes them unafraid of humans and can lead to all sorts of trouble. The present case possibly being the case. Remembering the case is yet unproven - it is not the first time parents will blame other animals for damage done by the family dog, bred for fighting or 'protection' - to stop it being put down or to 'save' and expensive fighter. So wait and see for proof. Some will be very shocked if I say that some fox hunting supporters will do almost anything to discredit the fox and turn the minds of antis in their favour. NOT saying it is the case here, but it does make me wonder?

Look what happened in Egypt when local tour operators started to feed sharks to bring them nearer to tourist boats? There is a road side café on the M40 where the owner feeds copious amount of meat to red kites to attract customers. It is a disaster waiting to happen.

I can't believe we are so eager to wipe out the foxes because of an as yet unconfirmed report that a fox attacked a baby. It seems to me that we can only tolerate animals that we can
a) eat
b) exploit for their produce
c) exploit in the interests of science
d) use for our own entertainment

Failing the above we are happy to eradicate them from the earth. What a sad and soulless lot humans can be. And what a sad and soulless world we seem to want to create.

Foxes eat rats as well by the way. Good luck with the increase in rats if we do manage to exterminate foxes.

So when did somebody tell foxes that a hunting ban had been put in place? Only a very small percentage of foxes living in the countryside are actually seen.

Hi Merlotgran - as I country girl I know country foxes are shy, but someone has said their population was increasing as fox hunting had stopped , as they were now being seen in the countryside, my point being they had always been there, but weren't too terrified ot be seen in open fields any longer

Gaga Gran, there is a world of difference between rats and foxes ( I have actually had pet rats )

Rats have no bladder, and urinate constantly, so wee on anything they run over - which is why they are so hazardous to health, as many have weils diesease. They also breed prolifically , and have no natural inhibitor to breeding, unlike foxes, as they can eat pretty much everything, including faeces, and live in sewers, which obviously harbour other diseases as well . It is not uncommon for rats to enter homes, as they can come in through small gaps, unlike foxes.

A better question would have been do I feel the same about dogs - after all they kill and injure more people annually than foxes...( and probably more than rats !)

Strange how angry town people were about fox hunting even though farmers were/are losing new born lambs and chickens to foxes, but, as soon as they appear to be a danger to us in our little suburban homes everyone seems quite happy to kill them .

Another way of culling foxes would be to chase them with dogs.

We see them round here during the day.

I would think you would start with digging out the earths and destroying the cubs. Humanely. They could probably be trapped too.

I pity your neighbours snailspeak.

The argument re dogs attacking people is silly. Should we allow foxes to kill babies just because some badly looked after dogs attack children.

Looking out of a train window today, somewhere between Banbury and Leamington Spa, I spotted a fox streaking across a snow-covered field. Definitely a rural fox in broad daylight.

A baby is a small mammal to a fox, snailspeak.

Luckily our foxes are more rural than urban and do a great job of recycling chicken carcasses and the like that we leave out for them. They even have their own bowl and when they approach it the security light comes on and sightings of them give us a lot of pleasure. Our foxes are shy creatures and only come out after dark but have been seen very early morning ambling down the road.

The foxes deal with the meat leftovers and our wormery takes the unwanted fruit and veg.

Anyway, how do you cull foxes? Not by poisoned bate that's for sure or a lot of beloved pets would disappear. Do we arm ourselves with shotguns and blast away? And what about all the attacks made by so-called domestic dogs. These far outweigh fox attacks.

Wheelie bins and no black plastic bags in our area so essentially no messy problems. More research is needed as to what attracts foxes to babies. There must be some sort of trigger.