Wish list for Britain

I note the return of the polemicist.

Lots of that on GN Ariadne

Yes, there is! But maybe not quite so relentless?

Sorry Ariadne he is not a polemicist - that word describes someone skilled in the art of debating polemics! Not just throwing out wild accusations and claims

It's the constant hankering back to Thatcher which amuses me. I thought we had a Labour government for years. Did they have no effect at all? Or we're they glad to have things done for them that Labour were too afraid to do? Not a political animal just curious.

I agree Stansgran that often pops up on GN and other places. There has been plenty of time to right any 'wrongs' she may have been responsible for. Recently I had a conversation with someone who used to work in HR in the NHS and she blamed the currrent situation on Mrs T adding a layer of management. When I asked her what should be done about it she said it was too late to do anything! What a mentality.

* Riverwalk* you are SO right, and for once I am willing to stand corrected! What is the word for which I'm searching? Theseus had a suggestion but it isn't printable!

Stansgran , We didnt have a Labour Government from 1997. We had a New Labour Government that continued Thatcher's deregulated free market dogma.

Movedalot, the mentlity is and was right. The Tories never believed in the concept of the NHS. The Tories believe in privatisation only.

The only way to improve the NHS is to increase funding, which means UK workers paying more income tax, but UK workers wont like that, so we suffer the consequences of an underfunded NHS.

Ivanhoe

I have tried to resist but you have thrown out the fishing line and hooked me in again.

Have you any knowledge of the Stafford Hospital Report. If you have not might I suggest you educate yourself. This was the period Labour were in charge of the NHS and openly admit to throwing money at the NHS and building new hospitals. Those would be the hospitals that are suffering badly now because of the Labour governments prolific wasting of money and the PFI deals they sanctioned that are crippling them financially.

It was not lack of funding that caused the patients to drink water from flower vases. It was not a lack of funding that made patients lie in their own excrement. Throwing money at a problem is always Labours answer isn't it.

If this government change the NHS good on them. If they get it wrong then I will be the first to say. You again have your head in the sand believing only, what, Old Labour can save this country. You hate the Torys, you dislike New Labour, you don't mention Lib Dems and I guess I can count out the BNP and UKIP. That only leaves communism. They do really well on health issues in those countries don't they.

Ouch![wince] emoticon

A hit! A palpable hit!

Ivanhoe. 0
POGS. 1

Yay!

Again POGS.

""The only way to improve the NHS is to increase funding, which means UK workers paying more income tax, but UK workers wont like that, so we suffer the consequences of an underfunded NHS.........

Funding went down under Thatcher, and New Thatcherite Labour didtnt increase
income tax funding either.

Managers arent the answer. More nurses is the answer. More money. More investment. And the return of the Matron.

As usual Ivanhoe and vampire queen have summed up my feelings, if only people investigated the facts , instead of relying on the media

We should never have tried running the NHS as a market economy - if you pay peanuts as they say...... and privatising the cleaning for instance led to lower paid staff,to make a profit for the owners, staff with no loyalty or pride, and has led to hospitals falling prey to superbugs like MRSA which has cost the country far more than any spurious savings made.

Each ward used to have its own cleaners, on duty all day - when I visited my sister after her hysterectomy, their was an upturned sick bowl covering faeces on the floor, that had been there for THREE hours - my sister was in tears, as she was having to smell it, and as she was on a drip, was unable to move away....

We should also stop recruiting nurses from developing countries like Malawi, it is an absolute disgrace that we expect these countries to invest in trying to develop their health services and then poach their staff

Ivanhoe

Your last post is so beyond ridiculous.

You have the hide of a rhino and if you can brush under the carpet the points I raised then there is no alternative than to asume you have no intention of considering you, your politics[ of what ever nature] can possibly be wrong.

So sod the patients who died of lack of nursing care and pathetic management from the Health Secretary down, after all Labour do say the man at the top has to accept responsibility don't they, that is until it is a Labour Minister. You are in denial if you do not accept it was not funding that caused 400 - 1200 patients to possibly have died due to lack of good NHS care. There are more hospitals in the frame but good old Labour was the NHS saviour according to your established doctrine that all that is good is left wing, all that is bad is right wing.

Susieceb

Which facts are you talking about?. What posts have relied on the media for their information without being investigated factually.?

New Malden and into Raynes Park does have the highest number of Sth Koreans outside Sth Korea! I grew up in New Malden.

apparently the ambassador/ Consul of SK rented a property in the area and subsequently other officials moved to the area, local property companies specialised in renting to the Korean community and the community grew and built local business to meet the needs of the Koreans. Like may ex-pat comunities. Many do come on short term contracts but most are now British/Koreans.

PS i am with you Ivanhoe..we need a socialist party out there and not faux Labour!

""susieb755 , As usual Ivanhoe and vampire queen have summed up my feelings, if only people investigated the facts , instead of relying on the media""

If only, sum it all up.

Ivanhoe

I will ask you then, what facts are not being investigated?

POGS , How long is a piece of string ?

Ivanhoe here you are talking about extra funding, on another thread you wanted to abolish some taxes/ways of collecting money to fund things. (I can't be bothered at this time of night to search to find it)

To use a cliche, you cannot have your cake and eat it.

Whatever our political views and allegiances I think we'll all agreeing on certain things. We just see different ways of resolving the issues.

No one person is to blame for the current state of the NHS and education......not even Maggie the demon queen. The systems have been messed up by generations of Whitehall tinkerers.

Instead of listening to teachers, doctors and nurses etc, Whitehall mandarins have made not only financial but also organisational decisions based on statistics and cost effieciency. Unfortunately what may look good in theory doesn't always work in real life hence we end up with 5 year olds being taught nine different subjects rather than concentrating on reading, writing, number, social and language skills and developing their motor skills and understaffed hospital wards.

Maybe it's time to draw a line in the sand and decide what we really want from our institutions. Do we want children who can read, write and calculate or do we want children who are so swamped with subjects that they don't have the time to assimilate and practise the skills they need.? Do we want wards that have a small number of highly trained nurses or do we want to return to a hierarchial system with a few highly trained nurses, some less trained nurses and nursing auxilaries which allowed more staff to be in place to care for patients?

Of course it couldn't happen overnight and the people listened too should be at the chalkface or on the wards not some Dame or knight who is the head of an academy or health authority.

But this is just a pipedream because it would take years to implement, would need all political parties to be in agreement and would require those who make the decisions to actually listen to and implement the ideas of those who do the job. Also it would cost a lot of money....another tax rise. Political suicide.