Bedroom Tax

But under this scheme, families will have to move house no end of times, as their family first grows, then shrinks.

Great in theory (on the face of it), but in reality it would be an absolute nightmare, and cost a fortune to both landlord and tenants.

Landlords will have the costly task of making properties habitable each time one is vacated. In the past, the majority of tenants made great improvements to their home over the years. However, knowing that they will not be in a property long-term will probably lead to a much larger number simply 'trashing' the place.

Then there is the fact that social housing is generally let totally unfurnished - and frequently barely habitable. Not even a cooker. The tenants, who if they are entitled to help with their rent, clearly don't have money to spare, will struggle to decorate, then carpet/curtain this chain of properties. Nor is there any guarantee that their cookers/fridges/beds/sofas will fit each new property.

These changes will cause a lot of misery, but do nothing to address the underlying problem: there are simply not enough houses available to rent at prices that can be afforded by those on a low income.

As for the elderly, how many able-bodied elderly couples do you know who have voluntarily downsized to a tiny, one-bedroomed property? I'm willing to bet that there are very few!

I would love to have two bedrooms, to spread out in but when I divorced I could only afford a one bedroomed flat with which I am very happy as I cannot now hoard. I have never been able to have any of my six grandchildren to stay and we have survived. I get really annoyed when people want more than their fair share of anything and expect the taxpayer - please remember the government itself has no money to dole out - such as me in my one bedroomed flat has to contribute.

If you own your house and you have made a decision to downsize even though the GCs come for Xmas and Easter no one makes this fuss. It's looked on as a good move releasing a family house in areas where there are good schools and then with the money released you buy a bed sette and some sleeping bags and inflatable mattresses. But if its council housing it's the wicked government depriving people of their family visiting. I cannot understand why people think that because they rent they own. The young families packed into B andB are just more entitled to council run properties than two people in a three bedroom property. A private landlord would have no qualms about giving them notice. My DD was given notice twice while renting privately once because the owner wanted to improve the property and once because she wanted to live there herself because they had made it so attractive.

adie a good point. We do seem to have concentrated on the losers in this forum but there will be winners too. There are people much worse of than the one you mention even, those in B & B accommodation or already overcrowded. Although this tax does seem very unfair to some it will benefit others. A choice has to be made between those with young familes living with them and those without. A tough call

I have read all your comments on the Bedroom Tax and agree with you that it is insane, but you have all looked at it how it affects pensioners, I met a young woman the other day, who was telling me in some distress about her situation, she is married with 2 children living in a small 2 bedroom flat, with no outside area for the children to play in, her local council Medway has a policy of not rehousing to 3 bedrooms until the children over 10 even though they are different sexes, she says her husband works but is on low wages. she worries about the children not getting any fresh air and feels that her situation is hopeless, she sees no future and says she will be stuck where they are without hope for years, if they had 3 bedrooms they would pay the bedroom tax, which would be imoossible for them.

i am fortunate to own my home and would hate to be consigned to a one-bed house. Relatives come to stay from all over the UK and beyond. Where would I put them? As King Lear said:
'Allow not Nature more than Nature needs, man's life is cheap as beast's.'

Oh, and I think children of opposite sex could only share a room up to age seven, I heard this will be raised to ten. Too old.

In a previous life I worked for a housing association working a points system. I always felt sorry for seperated fathers who, when offspring came to stay, had to give up their bed and sleep on the sofa. This was on the grounds that it wasn't fair for the child to claim for two bedrooms - one with each parent. It was even worse for those in studio flats who could never have their kids to stay.

As a live-alone Gran in a 2 bed house,I'd gladly move to a 1 bed property,but I am not fully able and have no transport,it's not what I live in but where I live that's most important to me.I value my privacy,like my own front door and 1 bed places are sheltered accommodation (no place for my beloved cat) or flats,around here.This has all kinds of disturbing aspects: what about fosterers? Parents who are separated and don't have custody but have their kids to stay? No provision for them.Good grief...and we thought Thatcher was bad!!

This document from the Housing Organisation lists those who will be affected.

It seems especially unfair on families who share custody of children as only one family can count the children as being part of their household.

Bedroom Tax

Just wondering how many spare bedrooms there are in Buckingham Palace

This subject is finally starting to make the headlines:

Bedroom tax: Pensioners WILL lose out
16 Feb 2013 20:00

The Sunday People has discovered that although they will escape housing benefit cuts in April, many will be caught in the net from October

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pensioners-will-suffer-bedroom-tax-1713692

The Department of Work and Pensions issued a denial, but quite frankly it isn't worth the paper it is written on (or would have been written on before computers )!

Quick update - since that last post, I have found a more worrying document.

On the positive side, the number of people affected appears to have fallen to 67,000.

On the negative side, it looks like these couples could be affected sooner than previously expected:

www.insidehousing.co.uk/tenancies/67000-pensioners-to-be-hit-by-bedroom-tax/6525753.article

That document, which was obviously written last June or July, still claims that "mixed age couples who are already receiving Pension Credit when this change is introduced will be protected".

It has become quite clear in recent weeks that this "protection" will only last as long as that elegibility is not broken. As I pointed out above, once that elegibility is broken for some reason, the said pensioners will have to apply for Universal Credit in the future.

Given that that very misleading statement has not been amended - and indeed, was still being repeated by Government ministers as recently as last week - then I think it is fair to say that the rest of the content of that document should be treaded with caution.

Groups such as Age Concern and Citizen Advice have voiced their concerns. However, I am not aware that their worries have yet been addressed. To be honest, it feels like the Government is determined to go ahead with this regardless, adopting a "suck it and see" approach.

I have pasted the following paragraph from a Citizens Advice Bureau document (it was in a PDF file, so no direct link). It carries Tuesday's date (13th Feb), and shows one of the key areas that they want to see resolved:

No entitlement to Pension Credit for mixed age couples (Universal Credit Regulations 2013, Part 1,
Regulation 3)
A couple with one above pension age and one below pension age (a ‘mixed-age’ couple) are currently
entitled claim pension credit. Under Universal Credit, a mixed age couple will not be entitled to state
pension credit and will effectively be treated as a working age household, with a benefit entitlement that is
more than £110 lower per week. Requiring the younger of the couple to seek work or engage in work
related activity is understandable, but removing entitlement to pension credit without adding a pensioner
addition into universal credit deprives the elder of the couple of their entitlement. This could be resolved
with the inclusion pensioner premium within UC for such couples.

Good luck with the move ayse hope it goes well.

Having read about it yesterday I woke at 3.00 this morning and couldn't get back to sleep.I've checked on the DWP website and this is what it says:

Under the existing system, people over the qualifying age for Pension Credit can also receive Housing Benefit and Tax Credits but from around a year after the launch of Universal Credit, they will no longer be able to apply for these benefits. At this point, Pension Credit will be changed to include:
•
a new element called Housing Credit, for pensioners who are eligible for support with rent
•
an additional amount for dependent children in the Guarantee Credit element.
The draft regulations for Universal Credit were published on 15 June 2012. These provide that where one member of a couple is over the qualifying age for State Pension Credit, but their partner is below the qualifying age for claiming Pension Credit, then benefit support will be available through Universal Credit and not Pension Credit.
The DWP in conjunction with the Social Security Advisory Committee has invited comments on the Universal Credit - Draft Regulations 2012 by 27 July 2012.
The date from which this change will take effect has yet to be confirmed but it will be no earlier than October 2013. Existing ‘mixed age’ couples who are already receiving Pension Credit when this change is introduced will be protected.

Apologies for cutting and pasting but this makes it very clear. [http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/universal-credit-faqs.pdf]

Hope you all have a lovely weekend. We are moving at the weekend back to our flood damaged flat (rented and two bedrooms). This is becoming more nightmarish by the week. [anxious]

I wonder what I would do if I were the person who had to make a decision about this. On the one hand there are people who have lived in a home for many years and brought up their family there and are part of the community. On the other there are many families who do not have a proper home to live in. I am rather glad I don't have to make that decision.

Perhaps moving young families where no one is employed to another area where housing is available is not such a bad idea. They will soon make friends with others, we did several times. I don't suggest forcing them but if they had the choice and took it why not? Maybe a new start might help them get a job.

gillybob our council ran a similar scheme for people wanting to downsize to smaller properties and it was very successful,a large proportion where living in 2/3 bed flats which where completly modernised and let to families with older children.As and when houses where available they where given the oppportunity of applying for them and so keeping the housing stock allocated to those who need it.
bluebell I live in a one bed apartment and the space is not a problem it depends on how you furnish it really,I have all my cupboards in my kitchen in order the same in the bedroom,you just don't tend to hoard stuff I find and it makes for an easy life so much easier to clean and do housework,washing is hung on a wirley thingy in the garden and if wet on a fold down maiden,I also have a tumble dryer if anything is urgent,I love my flat it is modern spacious and bright the envy of alot of my friends.

As bluebell mentioned, not all pensioners are exempt from the so-called bedroom tax. Those in mixed-age relationships, where one is of retirement age but the other is not, face a potentially huge fall in living standard, on top of being hit by the bedroom tax. Government ministers still keep coming out with the line "Pensioners will not be affected", but fail to mention that this does not apply to these mixed-age couples once Universal Credit is brought in. Over 90 000 people fall into that catagory.

If you are one of those people, but are already in receipt of Pension Credit, you don't need to worry - yet - as you will continue to get it.

However, and here's the rub - if you lose entitlement to Pension Credit, however briefly, you will not be able to claim it again at a later date.

In other words, if the younger partner manages to find a well-paid, but temporary job, you will not be able to claim Pension Credit again when that job ends. You will both be treated as if you were of working-age, meaning the younger partner will have to claim Universal Credit. Hence much lower benefit, bedroom tax, and almost certainly no eligibility for age-related means-tested benefits such as cold-weather payments.

I raised this topic yesterday in the Politics section, under the heading "Pensioners and Bedroom Tax".

If any of you are interested/worried enough to want to know more, here is the link to a very informative blog:

speye.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/pensioners-hit-by-75m-bedroom-tax-this-year/

I can understand the difficulty faced by local authorities when they have huge waiting lists for housing and have a large proportion of single people and/or couples living in three bedroomed homes that they have lived in for many years. Before my parents moved into their bungalow (and before the bedroom tax was even thought of) their local authority had a scheme where they approached single people or couples and offered them something smaller (usually a bungalow) together with a financial incentive to give up the larger home. In many cases it worked but some totally refused to move. Not sure what the answer is .

But surely that just puts pressure on Great Yarmouth's infrastructure and makes it harder for locals to get houses.

Great Yarmouth! Quite a few homeless / jobless have been moved into B&Bs there in the past and then rehoused in the area - it's cheap.

I think people moving into smaller places has been happening all along, where there are enough council/social housing flats and houses with one bedroom. But they haven't been fined for not moving! I agree with vq. Where are they going to move them to?

What will they do with the empty houses?

Where will they forcibly move them to? We have lower wages and rents here but no spare houses.