Nicola Edgington

And then it will just be, which antipsychotic pill, and keep the knives well away.

Sad all round.

Quite a lot Jingle. Various involved professionals will do their respective assessments and reports to a deadline, for post-sentence planning, and within this process if it is clear she needs a hospital place the consultant forensic pychiatrist will expedite it under the relevant section of the Mental Health Act, until such time it is formallsed and a different section is applied. It's 'how long is a piece of string' sometimes, depending on so many issues, including how her behaviour and well-being is at present. Some offenders are known to hype up their symptoms and they subside after sentence (although how she could exaggerate hers I struggle to imagine), and disagreement about diagnosis can throw a spanner n the works (although I have seen good psychiatrists take a leap of faith and get a hospital bed anyway).

How much assessing will they need to do?!

She should never have been sentenced to prison but to a secure hospital. The judgement on sentencing was very bad.
She was badly let down by the Police and the Health Service when she was asking for help. Yes she is potentially dangerous.
There are numerous people whose own concerns about how unwell or suicidal they are feeling have been ignored, with fatal consequences for themselves or others.

She'll most likely go on the hospital wing whilst being assessed, where she will have little or no contact with other prisoners, except in the company of prison officers and medical staff. She'll be on suicide watch - prisoners become more of a risk to themselves in such circumstances.

How tragic that someone else had to die in a horrific way. If only she had been listened to when she asked for help.

Surely putting someone like her into a prison, where she cannot be supervised or cared for in a way that fully recognises the danger she is to other people will put her fellow prisoners at risk?

I'm not sure anything has been proved or disproved j08. It's still a very primitive science (IMO of course).

And, I remember, the same article (or book) said schizophrenia was the one mental illness that is/was classed as true madness. Probably been disproved by now.

I read (years ago!) that schizophrenia could be diagnosed from a urine test.

What a dismal, but all too familiar, story nightowl!

It seems there has been some variation in her diagnosis. She was previously diagnosed with schizophrenia (after killing her mother, I believe) and the defence argued this, whereas the prosecution argued that she had a borderline personality disorder. It is not unusual for long term psychiatric patients to have a series of diagnoses and often go full circle back to previous ones. It is far from an exact science, if indeed it is a science at all. (Cynical emoticon)

Jingle you don't section someone who is in custody already (unless there's a risk they might get bailed or released), but further down the line she can be detained and transferred under the Mental Health Act, using a different section of the Act for going into a secure hospital setting.

But will she get that in prison Mishap?

Psychiatrists say that personality disorder is untreatable Lilygran (although there was a claim a few years back that some treatment is being tried that may have a beneficial effect). Rehabilitation is sometimes futile for the most dangerous personality disordered offenders, but attempts are still made, then it is down to Multi-Agency Public Protection Arrangements (MAPPA) to ensure they are managed and controlled if they are released into the community, including complying with treatment and/or controls.

l hour 30 mins in

I do not think that this sort of disorder is rehabilitatable sadly. All that can be done is humane containment (for public safety) and compassionate care.

This lady's insight into the fact that she poses a danger is unusual I think - it is a pity she was not listened to.

Wonder why haven't they sectioned her then? How dangerous can you get?!

An expert (didn't get the name or status) on Today this morning said while it is thought that around one in ten of the general population has a personality disorder it's about eight in ten in the prison population. So much for rehabilitation.

Yes, lots of personality disordered offenders in secure mental health units rather than prison, esecially DSPD (Dangerous and Severe Personality Disorder) which is sectionable under the Mental Health Act. Just looked up the figures - 8,000 secure mental health beds for mentally ill and personality disordered people who have committed offences, compared with nearly 90,000 prison places.

That's the one absent.

There might be other prisoners with personality disorder - bound to be. But as bad as this? And the fact that she asked for help before the crime?

Places in mental health secure units are thin on the ground, Jingle. She will be assessed and recommendations made for treatment, and hopefully prioritised for a MH bed. The consultant forensic psychiatrist who will oversee her progress in prison can move heaven and earth to get prisoners like this a place, but it's always at the expense of others who get shifted back to prison to make the space, if there are none who can be discharged or released into the community.

MH patients in medium secure mental health units, and special hospitals like Broadmoor and Rampton, also have rights and can fight attempts to move them back to prison. Having visited severely mentally ill prisoners in their cells, because they have been segregated to protect themselves and others, I have been horrified at the terrible state some have got into, despite best efforts of prison officers and medical staff, and I have watched whilst forensic psychiatrists have tried to mobilise anyone they can bring in to try and find an immediate place, often taking days or weeks before a place is freed up. By rights, this country should have more secure mental health places than prison cells.

Logic says that of course she should be in a secure mental unit. However, I think personality disorder is regarded as untreatable and therefore she cannot be placed in a mental health unit. It seems such madness to me (excuse the pun) that I wonder if I might be completely mistaken. Was this the woman who rang the police herself in desperation?