People's Assembly Against Austerity

Thank you Johanna

eloethan No, you did not annoy me but I am irritated by the distortions of what I said. You are not alone in doing this but the record needs to be put straight when you and others do so. You cannot read my mind, only make assumptions which are, in this case, incorrect.

Once again you have done it by saying 'every time'. This is not true, I have done so on a couple of threads recently because I am a little frustrated that so many continue to critiscise without offering any sensible solutions. This is the first time anyone has responded, you and Greatnan. Some I agree with and some I do not.

I would not be happy with government intervention in how much private companies pay their staff (apart from a minimum obviously). I remember Harold Wilson's attempt to do this which resulted in my fiance being given a promotion and a 25% pay rise. Companies will always get round these things.

I do think that the public sector should do better when awarding contracts which often seem to go awry. Clearly they need to improve their methods, not only of choosing who they award the contracts to but also how they monitor them.

I am not going to go through all of your list but would like to suggest that building more houses for people to buy also creates jobs for those who supply all the goods which will go into those houses. When people buy a house they spend a lot of money on it. This does not apply to the same extent when people rent a house. I do think that more social housing should be built.

I never suggested my troubles were/are unique. You know nothing about my health either physical or mental and if you had read everything I have posted on GN since I joined you would know that I feel very strongly that those unable to help themselves should be supported more than they are at the moment. I do not think that the welfare system should be reduced I just feel strongly that it should be spent on those who need it and not on those who don't.

GREATNAN. I couldn't have put it better myself. We are all citizens of the world and we have to look out for each other. I am sure we all want the best for our children and their children.....I want to leave this world a little better than when I entered.
The People's Assembly will be a great day and I know that it will give me hope. Anyone remember the terminally ill docker in The Boys From The Blackstuff? We have to have hope.

Pogs - who got upset? Some of us would like some definition of the terms 'communist' and 'left wing', but I don't really care what you or anyone else chooses to call me. I am not, and never have been, a member of the Communist Party of Great Britain, although my parents were in the 1930's, before the horrors of the Stalinist regime became known.
I used to be a supporter of the Labour Party, until Blair hijacked it and turned into ConservativeLight. I wait to see if Milliband can turn the tide.
I briefly had some hope for the Lib Dems, but that has now been destroyed by Clegg.
I am, therefore, disenfranchised, so I do not use the postal vote to which I am entitled but continue to pay taxes on my UK government taxes and to take a keen interest in the fate of the poor, the sick, the unemployed and the disabled.

Why has it upset some posters because the word 'communist' has been used?. It was not said any GN was/is a 'communist' and what if they were????

It is a fact, that there will be communists attending the Assembly, it is obviously dominated by those with left of politics thoughts. It is what it is, nothing more, nothing less. If you are going enjoy your day.

Would anybody like to comment on the possible savings we have detailed?

The following is a good explanation of some of the myths.

http://www.jointpublicissues.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Truth-And-Lies-Report-smaller.pdf

Movedalot Every time people raise issues that they feel demonstrate the unfairness of this government's approach, you say it's easy to criticise but what practical solutions have we got. Well, to my mind, a good start is to get together with other people who feel the situation is unjust and discuss what can be done about it.

Here are a few of the things that might be worthy of consideration:

Ensure that people who commit criminal acts, such as insider dealing, are prosecuted for their actions.

Reinstate the higher tax rate.

Ensure that hand-outs to banks are conditional upon them lending out the money to viable businesses (but the horse has already bolted on this one - I just hope we're not going to have another round of "quantitative easing").

Use the money set aside for the private housing initiative to go into building for the rental sector instead, to avoid the risk of house prices being artificially inflated and then deflated.

Abandon the so-called "free" schools to save duplicating costs.

Introduce additional levels of council tax so that a more proportionate amount is paid on very expensive properties.

Introduce rent controls.

Introduce compulsory purchase for long-term neglected properties.

Abandon Trident.

I have every respect for you making a success of your life despite experiencing many challenges, and I'm sorry if I have annoyed you. I was merely pointing out that your journey isn't a unique one and that some people (particularly those with chronic illness or mental/physical disability) are less able to be independent and need extra help.

Moved
A propos your post from 18.12 , please there is no need to justify your opinions.

It would be possible to limit the remuneration of the highest paid employee in any company to a certain multiple of the salary of the lowest paid - then we would not get the obscene amounts paid at the moment. There is, I believe, a smallish group of people who sit on remuneration panels. The way it works is that A recommends a huge increase for B, who recommends a huge increase for C, who recommends a huge increase for A. It wouldn't look good if A and B sat on each other's panel.
I can't see what was achieved by lowering income tax for the top earners - I don't buy the myth that the rest of the world is clamouring to tempt our movers and shakers away but if they want to go, let them. I am sure there would be others able to take their places.

We have made many suggestions in the past, but the dreadful waste which occurs in the commissioning of defence equipment is still on-going.

Lucrative contracts for large IT projects are still being handed to outfits that are manifestly either inept or corrupt, or both. The top brass of HMRC could well do with some investigation, as could the Audit Commission and the Serious Fraud Office.

Too many advisors are hired , often from the very accountancy firms that have failed to alert the authorities when accounts were less than honest.

Just a few suggestions, any more would be welcomed.

Eloethan I hope you are not suggesting that I don't want to see change!

Where do you get the idea that I think 'the government is powerless to address any of these issues'. I certainly didn't suggest any such thing. I did however ask Gransnetters for suggestions about what to do but nothing has been forthcoming so far.

I never suggested I was the only one to have experienced hardship. I merely mentioned it as in the past someone seemed to think I had been lucky when the truth is just the opposite. I come from a very dysfunctional family where my bullying father believed that only boys should be educated. Everything I have achieved has been down to me and my attitude. As my name suggests, we have moved around to improve our lot in life. We have gone without to provide for our children and we have worked extremely hard and frequently very long hours. We were not able to stay near family and friends with all the support that would have been given but we have not moaned when our jobs were made redundant, we got on with it and did what had to be done. It was not easy. Our life has been very hard at times and I resent anyone implying otherwise or suggesting they know what I think. The way some posts get reinterpreted to suit other people's agendas is as shabby as the way the media sometimes behaves.

I couldn't disagree with you more about sitting back and accepting the status quo and I don't think it has always been like that. I think there have been a great many changes in my lifetime, some good and some bad.

I have just reread all my posts on this thread and have no idea how you come to think what you do!

Rather than suggesting you know what I am thinking I would ask you to suggest some solutions to the current difficulties. What would you do?

Movedalot

I can't understand how anyone can look at the current situation in this country and not want to see major changes towards a fairer society.

Daily Mail, 5 June 2011 - "between 1975 and 2008 the top ten per cent of earners increased their share of the UK's total wage bill from 22% to 32%...... Over the same period the top 1% more than doubled their share of the wage bill from 5% to 11%."

In 2008, New York hedge fund manager, David Einhorn said "The investment bankers did exactly what they were incentivised to do: maximise their pay and bonuses. ... The owners, employees and creditors of these institutions are rewarded when they succeed, but it is the taxpayers who are left on the hook if they fail - heads I win, tails you lose."

Banks take far more out than the shareholders who own them. Recently, Barclays gave £800 million to shareholders but £1.8 billion to its bankers as bonuses.

To add to the greed of bankers, we also have the situation where, for instance, British Gas pays out £16 million in bonuses to their five top earners and Thames Water allocates £2 million for bonuses for their three top earners (whilst at the same time putting up prices, beyond inflation, to their customers).

Are you really saying that the government is powerless to address any of these issues?

As to your own situation, you are not the only person to have experienced hardship and come through with flying colours. My husband and I - and I'm sure many people on gransnet - have also lived through difficult times, but have been reasonably successful, despite receiving no financial help from the state or family. In our case, we were fortunate as children in having had reasonably functional families, a reasonable basic education, a good chance of getting a job when we left school and good health. There are many in our society who have not been so fortunate and who are being scapegoated and made to pay for the greed and corruption of those at the top.

You say it is easy to criticise but not so easy to find practical solutions. I would say that it would be much easier to just sit back and accept the status quo and say "it's always been like that, I can't change anything". If a number of notable individuals had taken that course, we would still be ruled by a handful of aristocratic landowners, there would be no state education, NHS, workers' rights, etc., etc.

Oh dear, please let's not start sniping. What do you suggest we do petra?

jO8. Your all right Jack. Pull up the ladder.

Sorry - I just had to get to the bottom of this renting out a room business, Sel!

Anyway, it was mainly for Jess's information...

Well done Ana - that's the over occupancy sorted. I'll get my shovel and go and make a start on the roads

Taken from Renting out your Spare Room issued by DWP
(I had to copy and paste it because of the format of the file)

"The first £20 of weekly income from a lodger is ignored and won’t affect your benefits. If you receive more than £20 a week in rent, the extra cash is likely to affect your benefits - although overall you should still be better off. Your local authority or an advice organisation will be able to advise you on the effects additional income will have on your benefit.

Homeowners and tenants who let furnished accommodation and take in a lodger are exempt from paying tax on rental income of up to £4,250 a year – and because it’s tax free, it also won’t affect the amount that you receive in Child Tax Credit or Working Tax Credit either."

Yes sel it was and although I think that we need a welfare state I think we also need to find a way to motivate people to want to look after themselves and be independent. Unfortunately we now have third generation people who have never known what it is like for family members to be employed. We also have so many people going to university that there are not the jobs they have been led to expect. And then of course there is the eleventh commandments....................................... that seems to apply at all levels.

Whatever we may thing of the present government surely we must all agree that it should be made worthwhile to go out to work rather than not?

Thus far no one on GN has come up with any solutions for any of the problems.

I am surprised that social housing tenants can sublet a room. Private tenants it would be a complete no-no. And does it not raise a lot of issues with benefits - i know you do not have to pay tax if you rent a room but rent would count against benefits and they could end up worse off with less room?

movedalot I'm presuming that you lived in your flat long before the days of the state dependency that is rampant now. I'm not sure many on GN were born with a silver spoon in their mouths or wish to snatch bread out of the mouths of babes or indeed, kick anyone who was down on their luck. There needs to be fairness, that's all.

The gap between rich and poor in this country is too wide but giving people enough benefits to enable them to make a choice not to work is crazy. It does guarantee a loyal following on election day though.

Eloethan I actually agree with you that more needs to be done, infrastructure improvements for a start would help business and employ many. Hopefully your pessimistic view of the housing imitative causing overheating won't come to pass. Construction has suffered greatly in the last few years, it needs a hand and hopefully this will be that hand. From that, much will flow.

I do think too that those who think we are hard done by in this country would be wise to take a look around. In many cases, it's not the benefits that are the problem, it's the easy access to them and their policing - not the case in the rest of the EU.

Something I should have mentioned: when I was young and living in a big city away from home I rented a room and discovered I couldn't save anything so found a lodger. We shared a room and also shared our bathroom with another couple. It was not ideal but something that was necessary in order for me to be able to buy my wedding dress and a few other things. I didn't expect anyone else to fund my life or put money in my gas meter. I do know what it is like and I don't think it did me any harm. If someone had helped me out I wonder if I would have achieved all I have since those days.

I am not advocating that everyone should have to live like this, just explaining that it is possible and that given the will to improve one's life, that is possible too.

Thanks Mice so how do we interpret that? How far do we go?

We are very good on GN at pointing out the problems but not at all good at coming up with solutions.

We all know what we would like and therefore think we know what others would like but so far none of us has come up with a way of making these things happen.

It is very easy to criticise and over simplify but not so hard to suggest practical ways to accomplish what we think is the right thing for all. No, slashing Trident is not a complete answer.

Movedalot, you ask for a definition of social justice.

'The virtue that inclines one to cooperate with others in order to make the institutions of society better serve the common good. While the obligation of social justice falls upon the individual , that person cannot fulfil the obligation alone. But must work in concert with others, through organised bodies, as a member of a group whose purpose is to identify the needs of society, and by the appropriate means to meet these, locally, regionally, nationally and globally. Implicit in the virtue of social justice is an awareness that the world has entered on a new phase of social existence with potential for great good or great harm vested in those who control the media and the structures of modern society. Christians therefore are expected to respond to the new obligations created by the extraordinary means of promoting the common good not only of small groups, but literally of all humanity'.

So there would be no room for family to visit? I would be very unhappy at having to share my bathroom with a stranger and I have no reason to think that somebody in social housing is less sensitive than I am.
Nobody has answered the point that there are simply not enough smaller properties, so this is simply a way of cutting benefits but in a very underhand way.

Yes, but it's not ideal, especially if there are children in the family. And if the spare bedroom was occupied by a lodger, wouldn't it make it harder for a family to be downsized when a smaller property became available?

Thanks Ana that surely would be a solution for at least some people.

Actually, a quick browse of the internet does indicate that social housing tenants definitely can take in lodgers.