Large families

Of course not, why would they? That is what the welfare is for - people who fall on bad times.

Message to Granny23 re the large family she knows in her area.

I was not referring to anybody on this forum - I think everybody is aware of the sustained attack on benefits made by this government and certain newspapers. I have no problems with the system being overhauled but certain aspects, like ATOS, are very frightening to many people.

"It is obvious that some people think they know all about me and have already put me in a box. Do I care? Not a jot."

That part of your post was not referring to anyone on this forum, Greatnan? Seems a bit unlikely, but of course, if you say so...

No, Ana, I wasn't thinking of you specifically - plenty of people enjoy having a go at me! Good job I am a tough old bird, or I might feel bullied sometimes. And the only reason I make notes about members is to avoid hurting the feelings of anybody who has had some kind of tragedy, health or family problem. See - what a nasty, vicious person I am.

I reckon we all make 'mental notes' about the people behind the names that we see frequently on the threads. It's part of the process of getting to know people in this environment, a process of building a mental picture of each personality or character.

Thank you, bags - I am afraid my memory is not what it was and I get confused because so many names are similar. I 'know' several members very well, having exchanged pms with them, perhaps when I have sent them a message of sympathy but it would be very easy to make an inappropriate remark which could be hurtful if someone had, say, lost a child or a partner, or had a serious health problem.
I have been lucky enough to meet several members now and it has been most enjoyable, and others have sent me messages of support when I have talked about my own family problem.
I am sorry if anybody thinks there is anything sinister in my little 'aide-memoires'.

Galen sorry for the late response, not been on since you corrected me. I am sure you are right DLA may well have been replaced by another name, I can't keep up with it all

Eloethan I think we will only know whether capping child benefits at a certain number of children will stop people having more than they can afford if it is trialed. I think a lot of people think it would but clearly others differ.

I think that state pensions should be reclassified so that the 'welfare' label can be removed. Other benefits to pensioners should stay under that label and then we would all have a clearer idea of how much is being paid to the unfortunate. It seems totally unfair to classify pensions which people have worked and paid for to be classified as 'welfare'. Have I got this wrong? I keep hearing how much of walfare is paid to pensioners and think that includes state pension.

Pensioners tend to claim a lot of benefits as well as their pensions. Free prescriptions, eye tests, bus passes, winter fuel payments, £10 bonus etc all count as benefits.

I agree Galen although there is a school of thought which says the winter fuel allowance was introduced instead of a sensible pension increase. I just think that our pensions should be taken out of the equation.

Definitely - a pension is a very different thing altogether, and most of us have worked very hard to get ours. It is an 'entitlement' not a 'benefit' as such.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/12/anti-welfare-rhetoric-families

How very sad.

Not only are these policies driving an even bigger wedge between the haves and the have-nots but also through the have-nots.

www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/focus/article1241993.ece

I think that this does not reflect the position on GN

What is the position on Gransnet - I gathered there were two mutually exclusive schools of thought?

Probably three as its gn

That is what I find so sad, that some see it as "two mutually exclusive schools of thought". What a shame that such a diverse group of older people have to have such closed minds. Life is never so black and white and such entrenched positions don't help any of us move forward. Old dogs and spots come to mind.

Bit insulting, Moved?

It is indeed sad that the 'poorer' are also divided- but in a way, it is very informative to see this. It reminds me of my sil, born and breed on a tough Council Estate, having lost his dad young, and who tells me I haven't got a clue about welfare abuse. Most of his family lives there and so does his mum. So why would many, like him, who have voted in favour of welfare reform? Is it because they know better than the likes of me, who has never lived on a Council Estate (although I have many friends who do, and would also vote in favour)? My sil has decided to go and live abroad, because he just couldn't bear to witness the abuse of the system, and because he was sick and tired of working like a dog, day in, day out, very long hours - whilst the rest of his friends and family watched him and laughed- and said they could get more on benefits, so why bother? There are some fabulous and honest people who need benefits and live on Council Estates- but it is silly to deny that the system is opened to abuse- and of course the lack of jobs 'created' by the Conservative Government is the perfect 'excuse'.

Nobody has replied - why did my sil decide to work so hard, and never say 'I can't do it, there are no jobs' and instead to become more determined to find work and be proud? What makes the Sugars of this world decide to fight instead of lose?

In greatnan's link there was a comment about the relatively low rate of benefit fraud. IMO that should have read "detected benefit fraud". I should imagine we all know of someone who is bucking the system, and however small the amount, if they don't declare it, they are benefit cheats. Sorry to go off track by the way, but while I'm on the subject I remarked a week or so ago about over 800,000 people withdrawing their claims for disability benefit and had it suggested to me that it could have been because they had got better, or found work.....REALLY?!

I really don't think anybody here has been so stupid as to say the system is not open to abuse - the only point at issue, to my mind, has been the extent of the abuse. I don't think anecdotal tales from one person are acceptable as evidence. Some estates are clearly more deprived than others.
Movedalot - I am very glad to hear that you have kept an open mind. May I ask if you have accepted the statistics that have been provided about the percentage of benefits claimants who are defrauding the system? And do please feel free to use my name if you mean me!

When, don't worry about the insults - I have lived with them for the best part of 18 months and they really are water off a duck's back. I think they say more about the people who make them than they do about me.

Ceesnan I couldn't agree more. There is a lot of undetected fraud about. Some claimants have no intention of ever working and fake their disabilities. Others think they are entitled to them as right.

That's their benefits not their disabilities!

Granjura your SiL's experience does reflect my own. I too was raised on a council estate, in a poor part of Bristol. My DH and I worked our socks off to make a good life for ourselves but I know some of my old school friends who remained on the same council estate making no effort to work. When I go back now and talk to other school friends they are fully in favour of the welfare reforms, they tell me they are tired of leaving home at 7.30 to catch a bus knowing their neighbours will not be up much before lunchtime.

One old friend even suggested to me that the welfare state as it now exists actually holds back what used to be called the working class. His theory was that by paying people to stay at home and do nothing, they were being robbed of the drive needed to make a better life for themselves and their families.

Whilst I didn't wholly agree with him I had to accept that he was actually living with it day in day out whereas I am now living in a comfortable, middle class enclave where few people are claiming benefits.