Thatcher has died

When- brilliant article by Russell Brand. Turns out his brain is in his head after all!

I was incensed to hear that Thatcher's Family may 'make a contribution ' to her funeral costs. They are extremely rich and should be financing at least the majority of the costs. I had no choice but to pay over £5,000 for the funerals of my DH and very sadly, less than 2 years later, that of my lovely DD. Carole and Mark should honour their responsibilities, just as the rest of us do.

trendy I heard on the radio this morning that paying for her funeral is very little compared to the rebate she got from the EU for all of us.

William Hague £75bn

What has the EU rebate got to do with it?

"I can't articulate ............. why Thatcher and Thatcherism were so bad for Britain, but I do recall that even to a child her demeanour and every discernible action seemed to be to the detriment of our national spirit and identity. Her refusal to stand against apartheid, her civil war against the unions, her aggression towards our neighbours in Ireland and a taxation system that was devised in the dark ages, the bombing of a retreating ship -- it's just not British." Russell Grant.

Well said that man!

An interesting assessment from a younger person.

I really do think she was a ghastly woman, which would not have mattered if she had not been in such a position of power.

MiceElf You're not the only one. Ironically, after admiring Mrs T for "taking on" the the Argies, the unions and lily livered politicians, the same posting refers to others as "the hate brigade".

I thought the term Argies was used only by tabloid newspapers who had limited space in their headlines – and, of course, the arch tabloid of the time was deeply jingoistic. Strange and wrong footing to read it here.

Nothing wrong with patrioisim .

absent Yes, the tabloids and their vile headlines, like "Gotcha", which many people found highly amusing.

A union is a group of workers joining together for their mutual benefit. So when some of you speak about 'the unions' you're actually talking about the workers. Should the workers not have the right to say and campaign for how they think the country should be run even if it goes against the views of the government of the day?

The workers took action because they felt threatened. No matter what their fears they couldn't have imagined what was about to happen in their worst nightmares. Maggie was determined to break the workers because those in power don't want the masses to be in control. What's the best way to break a groups power? Take away their livelihood. When you're worrying where the next meal is coming from for your children you forget about everything else.

The phrase 'The Unions' has been used ever since the first unions were formed to suggest anti-patriotic trouble causers rather than workers uniting for mutual benefit. From the Tolpuddle Martyrs to modern times the unions have been seen as a threat by the establishment.

I read an article in the paper a long time before the war pointing out that there was the possibility of an invasion, so was confused by the apparent shock when it happened. She was only re elected because we'd 'won a war'. I can rememeber lying in bed shaking with fear when the word 'missiles' was mentioned on Newsnight; thinking that all missiles were nuclear. Every month we dreaded my ex husband getting a letter saying he'd lost his job [and he was/is a top engineer in his field]. He used to sadly say that, if we lived in another country eg Germany he would be highly respected but living here he was just a lowly engineer. Since those days people in this country have frowned on any job that involves getting their hands dirty, as if we all should be bankers and accountants. And, given that the unions were replaced by bankers I know which of the two I prefer. Wasn't it round about that time as well that we were all encouraged to live on credit?

Yes, vq and Tegan. We needed the collective strength of our unions, fighting for a decent wage and to try to keep our industries from being shut down. Did anyone notice the statistic given on the Wright Stuff programme earlier - in the last year, UK workers' average pay has risen by just over 1%, whilst their employers' has risen by an average 16%!

Mishap the comment about the "bombing of a retreating ship* just goes to show how readily these sort of myths are spread. Even the captain of the Belgrano has admitted that they were not retreating, but circling the area, waiting their chance. Thirty years on and this sort of rubbish is still being spouted and no doubt believed.

At least Margaret Thatcher devoted years of her life trying to do some good for this country. Can't say the same about Russell Brand!

God! He's a right one to have for your new hero!

I don't understand how the pre Thatcher years are being given such a rosy glow. The three day week, bodies left unburied , rubbish piling up in the streets, power cuts and the whole country being held to ransom by bloody minded trade unions? Yes, those were the days alright....

Tegan I think engineering is very much respcted in this country and nowadays very few of them get their hands dirty. I worked in engineering a long time ago and was very impressed by some of the guys who did get their hands dirty in those days. Unfortunately we were not very profitable and had to amalgamate 2 companies and close others. No matter what anyone may feel businesses do have to be profitable to continue.

It was interesting when we closed a factory in Sparkhill that most of our Indian people were not too bothered as they all had fingers in other pies. I am quite sure that with their work ethic they were all fine.

gracesmum hear hear. In the final analysis, MT displayed that determination and tenacity could lead to ending one's days in dignified luxury at The Ritz!

The Ritz? or alternatively, being patronised (and possibly) brutalised in a Care Home ? Difficult choice huh.

I know! I know! But the Ritz? - ALWAYS wonderful / Care Homes? NOT ALWAYS wonderful. No doubt she will be blamed for that too.

RIP Mrs T.

I thought the article by Russell Brand was excellent as well.

I used to really despise him until, a few months ago, I read his article on illegal drugs which was very insightful, compassionate and well written.

Just heard on Radio 4 that "The country has always borne the cost of the funerals of ex-Prime Ministers"

I was trying hard not to get embroiled in this particular thread as I thought it was so vitriolic I would sit back and watch and let the words of some be agreed with by those of that persuasion. All entitled to our view I suppose.

I can't stand it any longer though and I am cross with myself for getting hooked by the 'debate' or 'statement' as per your mind set. I have to agree with Sel and I thought the Russel Brand bit was brilliant.

Baroness Thatcher was devisive, yes I agree. This country was split in half not only by Thatcher but by the agressive tactics that the unions had adopted. It was not a spin term, this country was tagged 'The Sick Man Of Europe'

It is always said the North of England was destroyed by Thatcher. There are some of us who say the whole country was being destroyed by the unions. I have mentioned before on another thread the destruction of private companies because of union activity has never been shown one minute of sympathy by the left. There were men and women in private companies who were struggling just as much to feed their children and keep a roof over their head. They had not made a decision to stop their wages coming into the home to feed the family by choosing to stop working. They had no choice, their work was cut from under their feet by companies who were trying their damndest to keep ticking over to employ them but couldn't do so because of the state of the economy slowly being brought to it's knees by union strikes. Nothing moved, we were in a crisis. Thatcther is always said to be the one who caused it. No she didn't it was going on before she became PM.

I have said before for my first job I was a GPO telephonist . I was a kid of 16 and I didn't want to join the union. I wanted to give my money to my mum and keep a bit for myself. The horrible b-----s who were union 'representatives' were evil to me. I was threatened to be sent to coventry, nobody would have anything to do with me. Watch your back, that sort of thing. I was told by a lot of the others, 'Take my advice, none of us want to be in it but if you don't they will make your life hell. In other words the union was who you had to report to. This was rife throughout industry and the public service and the unions were getting bigger and stronger through bullying and threats to co workers.

It wasn't Thatcher who was making this country a basket case. Industry was choosing to give up, it couldn't compete with the demands of the evergrowing strength of union leaders. Might I add who to this day give themselves very lucrative wages and perks, that's good socialism at work. Top Union Leaders as we know earn more than MP's and if I am not mistaken could get more that the PM. of the country.

As for the wonderful Mr Scargill wasn't he taken to court recently by the Union to get him out of his 'Grace and Favour' flat in London which was costing thousands a year out of the vast union funds.

moved actually I think you'll find a school of thought that believes businesses don't have to be profitable at all, they should be supported by taxes paid by the businesses which are profitable. The good old days. Remember British Leyland?

Industries will shut down unless they can make a profit. If a company is not profitable then the quickest way to reduce cost is getting rid of employees. This is the stark fact of life. The Unions in the 70s had way too much power for a body that was unelected except by its own members. What say did a business owner have in decisions to withhold power or shut down ports etc. things which potentially could wipe out their businesses. Yes, by all means trumpet the rights of 'the workers' but try not to forget that other people worked too.

Crikey POGS we posted at the same time and said exactly the same thing. Spooky

One of my favourite Union leaders is Bob Crow, can't remember the acronym but it's the transport union. He managed to secure a deal from London transport for £50k salaries for the tube drivers. Power to him. But sympathy for the poor sods paying the fares. He also, I believe earns well in excess of £100k and lives in a council house. Hypocrite. A Southern Scargill.

Hero Jingle? Where did you read, or infer, that Russell Brand is anyone's hero on here? We must be reading very different posts