Thatcher has died

Greatnan I don't remember making any comments about it apart from the one re today's financial situation.

V

Excellent article, Eleothan. I hope everybody takes the trouble to read it - it will save us having to make the same points outselves.

Ceesnan That the General Belgrano was, together with other Argentine ships, on course to attack British vessels is true. However, it was still in the exclusion zone and Mrs Thatcher agreed to change the rules of engagement in order to allow a nuclear hunter killer submarine sink it.

MiceElf I was thinking exactly the same as you - how different Mrs Thatcher's final years have been, compared to the many harrowing stories from Gransnetters' about their ailing parents.

j08 I doubt that mothers living in areas decimated by her policies were so indifferent to the actions of "Maggie".

I thought this was quite a good summary of Mrs Thatcher's actions and her continuing legacy, though I'm not altogether sure I agree with some of the arguments put forward (for instance, re closed shops and secret ballots).
scriptonitedaily.wordpress.com/

I am listening to Classic FM a lot more than usual. Hagiography was developing well on Radios 4 and 5Live this morning!

Just realised that the link is wrong. However, if you are interested you can google Belgrano captain threat and then go to the blogspot

Should be and add.

greatnan any comment to this?

iaindale.blogspot.com/.../belgrano-captain-we-did-pose-threat-to.htm...

I'm not justifying the deaths of course, but it annoys me when this sort of myth is used to try and and fuel to a fire.

Thank goodness there are people around who will not jump onto the bandwagon of those who wish to almost sanctify MT.
History is being re-written in her favour and that is both inappropriate and sad.
Greatnan I cannot bear to listen to some of the remarks so I am sitting in a different room with the radio off!

Thatcher began the deregulation of and glorification of banks and financial services who now have a direct responsibility for the stinking mess that the country is in. Thatcher was also responsible for bunging great numbers of those she had made unemployed by closing the mines and a lot of manufacturing on a disability payment in order to massage the unemployment figures. That seems to be something of a mess right now too.

Jingle, if you really don't know/remember anything about her reign, it might make it difficult for you to give us informed comments.

How does bringing up your children stop you taking an interest in politics?

jo8 When "that woman"came to power my son was under two and ii was pregnant with DD. I remember it very well.

I definitely don't think you can pin the present day financial state of the UK on her as some of them in the media seem to be trying to do. That's a bit like blaming your parents for who you are today. It doesn't wash!

Blimey! Was no one actually bringing their kids up during Maggie's reign?

I could tell you more about what went on on Blue Peter than I could about any of this stuff!

… and of course in Thatcher's own time because of the poll tax.

Flickety

You say She was a conviction politician with a clear set of principles which she stood by and defended.

That is never automatically a good thing to do. A person should judge their principles against moral standards and the general good; not follow them blindly at whatever cost to others.

It would be quite possible to use that phrase about Hitler and a number of other dictators etc.
NB. Before anyone gets their guns out I am not making any direct comparisons between the actions of these two, but the principles are the same.
That "sticking to principles attitude" is what led to burning protestants or catholics at the stake, depending on which side you were on.

What led to Thatcher's downfall was her inability to listen to the views of her cabinet and she ignored advice from many quarters. That shows arrogance a lack of connection with others.

I cannot accept that sticking to principles whatever is always a good thing.

You say about Cameron listening to opinion polls It is important because it is the only way public opinion can get any influence over what government does.
I am not saying the goverment should always be swayed by the public and other opinion but they need to listen and examine their policies accordingly. When the public feel they are persistantly not listened to is when rioting occurs. As has happened over the centuries.

Surely the gross failings of the governments that followed her do not excuse the wrongs she did?

Here are some details of the shameful career of the son she idolised, which must bring her judgement into doubt. It seems he was, in fact, a criminal and a usurer. She insisted that her husband be given an hereditary honour so he could be Sir Mark Thatcher. I wonder how she squared her 'strong moral principles' with his antics.

fhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3597196.stm

gillybob agreeing on your comments re students,don't they know when she was in power they did not have the fee's that they have to pay to-day and the disgraceful behaviour of people who the next generation of our Country leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Given normal longevity, Blair will outlive me. I wonder how many people will say he has to be respected. I am listening to Today on Radio 4, and it was said that when asked what she had bequeathed to Britain, she replied 'Tony Blair'. What a legacy.
It is true that many manufacturing industries were inefficient and still using machinery from the first days of the industrial revolution. Surely, if the people with the funds had been willing to invest, it would not have been impossible to bring them up to date. Similarly, it should have been possible to regulate the unions without smashing them, with the 'collateral' damage to whole communities. I have always thought the running down of industries which gave employment to the traditional working classes was ideological rather than pragmatic. In times of high unemployment and job uncertainty, workers are far more likely to accept worsening conditions and pay. More profits for the few. Thatcher seemed to think that the financial service industry would provide employment for all - what a jok

Privatisation lined the pockets of the few and led to the splintering of the railways, for example, with disastrous results for safety. If management was poor, it should have been replaced. We needed greater regulation, not less. Few individuals or companies have been prosecuted for manslaughter when the drive for greatest maximum profits for shareholders has led to neglect of safety rules.

No, I am not blaming Thatcher for these failings, but I am blaming Thatcherism and the belief that if businesses were making enough profit it would 'trickle down' to the people actually doing the work. It didn't.

Am I cynical - of course I am. I have eyes to see and ears to hear. One look at Blair and his millions is all I need. Mark Thatcher became a millionaire without any discernible talent or intelligence because of his mother's contacts with Saudi Arabia and the corrupt defence industry.
His efforts to make money in Africa were just risible if not criminal.

This post is disjointed because I am so angry, listening to people lauding this woman and excusing all the wrong she did on the grounds that she was strong or a woman. I can think of a lot of other strong leaders in the world and I don't think any of us would claim to respect most of them.
(If anybody tells me to calm down or chill out they will get some unparliamentary language from me!)

I will admit to Hurray the Witch is dead. I never had a good word to say about her when she was alive and I'm certainly not going to say anything good about her now she's dead.

I remember the Seventies. I also remember that a union is made up of it's members i.e. the workers otherwise known by some as 'the enemy within'. Breaking the workers was part of Maggie's plan because a capitalist country can't have a strong workforce and in her opinion and that of her chief propagandist, Rupert Murdoch, the workers were becoming too strong.

I'm not saying that everything the workers did was right but then it wasn't in their interest to totally undermine industry either. Maggie waged war on the workers and won by destroying the very industries that employed them. I know the industries were struggling but they were in other countries too. Maggie let ours go to the wall whilst other countries gave subsidies until the recession passed.

And, on a tangent , I know, but her declining years were spent protected and nursed and with every comfort. And I contrast that with what is happening to Mishap's Dad and others on here who have shared their sad stories about their frail and vulnerable parents. A divided society indeed.

Bags Thank you. Very interesting.

I fear the scale of the funeral,it will be a debacle,a huge mistake.

I must say that the sight of students partying in the street and champagne corks popping is rather sick don't you think? Whatever her politics she wasn't a murdering dictator just a hard line politician who happened to be the first woman prime minister. Most of the students "celebrating her death" probably weren't even born when she was in power, or if they were they were too small to know the difference.