Bill Roache - what next?

The 'too hard to do' list resonates iam64. Challenging powerful, popular people about their behaviour can be tantamount to professional suicide. My line manager and I complained about someone in an executive position after he made disparaging remarks about sexual abuse victims who had attended a conference to speak to child protection specialists in the early 90s, simply because they didn't use objective language like other speakers had. His sexist and patronising remarks shocked the delegates, but no-one challenged him. Instead they gossiped about what they knew of his private life, which concerned us even more.

We wrote to him, copying in the chief executive and our chief, laying out specific examples of what he had said and done in front of us, and a week later we were summoned to head office and put in our place. Who did we think we were? Weeks later, he sent us both some flowers (eh??). Soon after that he resigned, taking early retirement. Yet another who got warning shots and disappeared, but if only we had been supported. If professionals can be stopped from expressing their misgivings about what they see going on around them, how difficult it must be for powerless children. There must be thousands of tentative complaints dismissed as 'too hard to do' that are now being looked at again.

greatnan - I'm pleased that you have been pm'd about Rochadale/Orkney (and Nottingham etc) as there was so much mis-representation in the media about these cases.

Welcome, Iam64. Your knowledgeable input will be very welcome. We have a few other regular posters who have had profesional experience in this field and their insights are very valuable.

On the general subject of sexual abuse, it has been brought to my attention that in the case of the Orkneys children, it turned out later that there was indeed abuse, but the mention of Satanic rituals actually clouded the issue. I had linked this case to that in Rochdale, which I now think was quite different. I am grateful to the member who pm'd me with her inside knowledge and the other members who gave me more details.

new gransnetter and busily catching up with discussions. Like some of the other posters, I worked in child protection for many years. It still distresses me to hear people, and especially women, talking about a compensation culture. The evidence shows there are very few false allegations of rape, and too few prosecutions, especially where children are concerned. The criticism of victims, male or female, for not coming forward for a long time is unfair on so many levels and isn't one I've heard from those of us who have worked with perpetrators/victims/survivors and their families. The way in which the media initially responded to allegations against Jimmy Saville gradually changed, as it became absolutely clear the man was a predatory sex offender who continued abusing throughout his life. I have come across a small number of men like him, and like Stuart Hall, who are opportunistic abusers and hide in plain site. I do feel that the extent of sexual abuse of children, and vulnerable individuals, is something that as a society we are inclined to put on the "too hard" list. I also agree with others here, who make the links between Bill Roache, Owen Oysten and Stuart Hall. Like minded people tend to find each other don't they.

I believe that of the 774 judges sitting in the courts of England and Wales, 67% were educated at public schools and 60% went to Oxbridge. The vast majority are white men. As more women and people from ethnic minority groups enter law, things are changing very slowly. I think many judges have no idea of the day to day lives of the people they are sentencing.
Lord Denning betrayed a breath-taking lack of understanding when he said 'When a lady says 'No', she doesn't always mean 'No'.
I am always surprised when people who vote Conservative betray no anger at the fact that the cabinet is stuffed with Old Etonians.
Yes, I know that Blair employed many people who had shared chambers with him and Prescott was just a token 'bloke'.

One of my friends is married to a QC, who says in the legal profession it is well known that judges have no judgement!

Spot on, Ella! Some of them have strange ideas. Suppose it comes from certain public school experiences, which I won't describe here.

I wish the police would start investigating the judges who let paedophiles off.
I find it hard to believe that they are just naive.

Ella they have a number of business interests together, including being shareholders and board members on Lancashire Life and other such magazines.

when I didn't know they were all in business together, how telling!
Apparently at a fairly nearby golf club, Bill Roache was known years ago as 'Cockroach'!

I agree with you ga, having met the wives and children of many sex offenders. The lengths that some abusers go to, to cover their tracks, is sometimes incredible. They haven't committed these abusive acts, the majority don't condone what they did, and because they haven't been abused by him themselves they can't get their heads round what has been alleged. Some react immediately, whilst others take months or years to assimilate how the abuser has operated. Few stay loyal in private, but may put on a supportive face in public. The tensions of living with a sex offender are terrible. Family breakdown in usually inevitable.

His wife will wonder about every intimate encounter they have had and what value she had in the relationship, who he was envisaging when they made love.

They won't be able to join in family occasions together if children are there. Every action will be examined with suspicion. If he goes off on his own, they will wonder where he is if he is a few minutes late. He will be watched to see if he is looking at young people with more than passing interest.

If Stuart Hall is imprisoned, they will need strong personal reserves to endure the trial of prison visits. They will find out who their friends are. He will find he has very few, other than like-minded people or those who can take an objective, professional view of him. He has ruined their lives as well.

I am sure you are right, ga, and I do feel sorry for the children of abusers - not so much their wives in every case.

I'm sure by now that regular Gransnetters will know my thoughts on abusers and the survivors of that abuse.
BUT, I also feel very sad for the families of these men; wives, children and grandchildren all having to come to terms with the certain knowledge that their beloved relative has committed acts that are shameful and now are public knowledge. Particularly sad in the case of Stuart Hall whose family believed his initial assertion that he was not guilty and are now having to face the truth. Just imagine for one moment that Stuart Hall is your beloved father/grandfather; imagine your confusion, revulsion, shock, disbelief. Imagine you're his daughter (he has a daughter and a son) and have discovered that your dad has had to sign the sex offenders register; going over in your mind every goodnight cuddle, every bathtime romp, every intimate moment you had with him.........I've counselled abuser's children in the past and their grief and trauma is very real and undeserved.

Stuart Hall's 'apology' in court has hollow tones when we learn about his financial gymnastics that are intended to put his assets out of reach of potential compensation claims.

He is in business with Owen Oyston (convicted rapist) and Bill Roache, but they have all had massive financial losses recently. Makes you wonder where Bill Roache is transferring his remaining assets, just in case.

I feel so sorry for the victims of these men , they derserve all they can get .

lives just totally ruined .

I was referring to Stuart Hall, who apparently transferred the house just before pleading guilty. This could be viewed as defrauding creditors, so I hope he doesn't get away with it.
I am afraid I have a lot more sympathy with the victims than with his wife - surely she knew his reputation.
I have read some comments in a newspaper about the 'compensation culture', and the victims have been called 'gold-diggers'. Many of them have had their lives ruined by the abuse and I hope very much that the abusers are forced to pay them some damages. Some comments made it sound as if the victims were to blame.

As indeed has Stuart Hall , although that was done in "79 .

Ialso feel so sorry for the families of these men , how terrible to have to live with this knowledge

And now it seems he has transferred ownership of his expensive house to his wife, in case he is ordered to pay damages. That's how sorry he is.
I would be surprised if the courts would accept that though, as it would have been done purely to avoid the consequences of his crimes.

I was talking to my sister by phone last night - when she was at Manchester University she had a friend who knew Stuart Hall way back then, in the 70s. Hall was known as a slimy so and so - everyone knew that side of him. This friend could not stand him, so it was all well known back when he was molesting young lasses.

The only good thing he's done is confess: this saves his victims further pain.

Yes, that young girl's story that she sent to a journalist rings so true - she must have been in a terrible state.

Unfortunately, some children do make up allegations, such as teenagers accusing teachers who have disciplined them. If the teacher is unpopular, other members of the class may back up the accuser. Lives, careers and marriages have been ruined by malicious young people.
Of course, all complaints must be dealt with sympathetically but I think it is better to keep an open mind until the facts have been established.
And, of course, we must never forget the horror of the wrongful accusations of satanic abuse - the children involved were certainly abused, but by the professionals.

Overhill - have you read the link posted by grannyactivist about Stuart Hall? Are you thinking about Bill Roache?

It is not just the 60s. The attitude of society, the police, parents and all concerned have all been unacceptable for many decades. Children were not believed, families hushed up allegations and all too frequently the police did not take it serioiusly. This allowed sexual preditors to take advantage with little fear of being brought to justice. Hopefully we all now accept that children and young people do not make up allegations and they should always be supported when making disclosures.

overthehill, not everyone is the same, maybe some 16 year old girls would be able to brush it off, that's not really the point though, he exploited his position with one girl by approaching her through her school following a prize giving. The woman I have read about said she was quite young and naive for her age, and why indeed should a young person be expected to be worldly and wise at 16 anyway. This did take place many years ago and I think it's entirely plausible, that many a teenager of yesteryear would have been similar to the one in question. Social medias today have exposed many young people to a nasty side of life and we forget that some teens didn't grow up as quickly in the time span this horrible man was abusing young girls.

Having read some of the other appalling details about Stuart Hall, particularly regarding the molestation of the very young child who he had "gone to read a story to" when he was a guest in the parents' house he sounds a real horror. As well as the victims, I also feel sorry for his family, if they didn't know this side of him, it must have come as a horrible shock.

I can remember slimy characters like Stuart Hall when I first went to work who thought nothing of making a pass, without any encouragement, it was all considered nothing much and by the time I got up into my late teens it was kind of accepted that somehow you were expected to cope with this sort of thing. Eyebrows would have been raised I'm sure if anyone actually made an official complaint.

Greatnan
Didn't he do a lot more than that? According to her letter, he groomed her and then assaulted her seriously several times.

Not the one I read about it happened just the once.

marelli xx

, glass.