Flighty older women..

After my father retired, my parents moved from a "tied" house to a beautiful new council flat but with no garden. Both loved gardening so within 2 years they bought, with my help a beautiful house in the same town.They both died within 19 days of each other a few years later but they died knowing that I would inherit the home that they lovingly looked after etc.The garden was huge and would have become an issue but they were not around to see that happening, thank goodness. I sold the house as I was married at the time and living in London.

Hello Nonu....I jolly well am thanks!

Hello Hilda , how you doing ??

Keep Smilin"

I agree Jane. I think though it may be a generational thing too, my parents worked hard for their big house and large garden and saw it as a retrograde step when they could no longer cope and had to downsize. They felt there was a stigma in downsizing and their friends would think they could no longer afford to live there and would look down on them.
We downsized as we could see ourselves sliding into the same position and didn't want our lovely family home to deteriorate as theirs had. I hated the unused spare rooms too.
We are wonderfully happy in our new house with no unused rooms and a pretty garden which we actually have time to sit in. It's becoming more acceptable for people of a certain age to move into nice new flats with shared gardens where they can enjoy more freedom.

I do feel very sad though, when I see lovely old houses that are horribly run down and you just know that a very elderly person lives there. There are a couple of houses like that in a village not far from here and I long to rescue the houses before they rot away completely.

I agree it would be unreasonable to expect an elderly person to move from the home they have lived in for many years. Perhaps if more 1 or 2 bedroom bungalows were built older people could be ASKED if they would be willing to move, but the choice would have to be theirs. Just because someone was unable or unwilling to buy a property of their own doesn't mean they should be forceably removed from their home. Many council tenants improve the properties they live in to make it more comfortable for themselves.

I am fortunate enough to own my own home and, whilst it is far too big for me, I wouldn't want to move and I am only in my 60s!!

Aka - I accept this thread has wandered into a debate about housing supply generally, but suppose that is unavoidable if we're discussing single households, and the housing stock. I agree with others who have said that individuals in social/rented accommodation benefit from a level of choice, as do those of us lucky enough to be buying/have bought our homes. After mum was widowed, we daughters were able to support her from age 82 to her death 5 years later, and she continued to live in the family home. It had 3 bedrooms, gardens and she needed some support in maintenance etc but she loved her home. We loved visiting what was still "home" to us. She had an elderly dog and he was such an important companion for her living alone. The notion of uprooting widows in their 80's because their family home is needed for younger families feels cruel to me. The issue is the lack of social or indeed affordable housing. I remain astounded at the sale of council housing, with the councils not allowed to use the money raised to build more housing stock. Maybe I should be posting this in politics?

I think this thread has got confused inasmuch as Penelope Keith was talking about private housing and not council owned houses.
However if we are on that point then it remains a fact that council tenants do not own 'their' property, it is part of the council's social housing assets. I think everyone is entitled to a spare bedroom, but when you find a three or four bedroomed council house in single occupancy then that cannot be right when families are in B & B accommodation. Build more 1-2 bedroomed council houses. Simples!

My sister is in a similar position, GA, and I get annoyed when people who are secure in their own homes seem to think that because she lives in social housing she should have no consideration given to her personal circumstances. She has lived in her house for over 25 years and moved their with her four sons after separating from her husband. She has a good support network of friends and neighbours who looked after her when she had a knee replacement. She has spent a good deal of her own money in decorating the house and gets great pleasure from her little back garden.
There are no smaller houses anywhere on her estate and if she were forced to move out of the area she would lose her social life and probably become severely depressed.

My mother lives in a 3 bedroomed (2 small doubles and a box room) council house that she moved into more than 50 years ago. She's lived on the same estate since before the roads were made, moving there when she was only four years old and the estate was still being built. Now she's 84 and her two closest friends (they met at infant school) still live nearby. She raised eight children in that house and wants to die there; even though the estate itself has many social problems and is not exactly a safe place to live (I wouldn't want to move back there for a million pounds). Three of my sisters own substantial properties and have begged my mother to move into a 'grace and favour' cottage in Warwickshire or a flat in Stratford Upon Avon (owned by my sisters), but she regards her house as her home and will not leave. Should she really be forced to? Do we really believe that it's okay to remove her choice in the matter? Is she really responsible for the lack of social housing for families? I would say that the sell off of social housing coupled with years of under investment is more to blame than my mum, who simply wants to die in her own home.

Totally agree gadaboutgran. The starter homes are tiny ... How would our theoretical elderly person afford to change the furniture that she's looked after for so long but wouldn't fit into her newly allotted hutch, sorry I mean home! It's awful the way theres an assumption that people on social housing shouldn't have some say in where they live.

Our local authority/Housing association 'bribed' elderly people with a £3000 grant to move from their nice little bungalows to a massive block of flats separated from the rest of the community -very nice inside, ugly outside but too big for some & with no private gardens. (I think they had 2-3 bedrooms to attract couples to move from their houses once children had flown the nest.) They demolished the bungalows & tried to force through plans for as many flats as could be crammed on the site. We locals fought a campaign & won so there is now quite a pleasant mix of flats & bungalows with their own gardens. Not every older person likes living in flats. Everyone needs a little choice even if in social housing.

How does Ms Keith know that these newly single older women have not been dumped by their husbands? Or assaulted? Or bullied for years? She is presumably thinking about a few people she knows rather than talking from a wide knowledge of society.

I think life is hard enough for older women without being forced to downsize if they don't want to. A friend of mine obtained a council house when her husband disappeared, and brought up her four children there. She has been left with a daughter who is clinically depressed and has caused no end of trouble over the years, and her neighbours have been wonderful. However, the daughter is 30 and also has a rarely-used flat elsewhere, so not a registered tenant, and my friend was worried sick that she would lose her house and have to sleep in a living-room during those months when her daughter is particularly bad. As said previously, she has been told that the new rules will only affect newer tenants. She will apply for a flat when she can no longer cope with her garden.

I think men are quicker to downsize when they are on their own, they aren't thinking of family members needing to stay overnight in the same way that women are. We have an elderly uncle who lives in an incredibly expensive area and downsized last year to a small flat, he is always saying that we should come and stay in a hotel nearby and I don't think he fully realises how expensive it would be for us to do so.

More one bedroom houses need to be built. My daughter started on the property ladder with a one bedroom house with its own little garden. Very nice it was too. Easy to clean and to heat.

The council should at least offer her a smaller place. A three bedroom house should be used by a family.

Once the move was made she would most likely not look back.

As long as she is paying her rent, there's nothing they can do to oust her from her home. However, I think new tenants may have a different, non-permanent contract.

Dorsetpennt, I can understand why you would think the council should insist your friend's friend move on but it's not that easy. Years ago councils would manage their housing stock more carefully but legislation has changed all that. If this woman has lived in her home for a long time she'll be attached to the house and the neighbourhood. Is it fair to expect her (presumably in her later years) to be uprooted and forced into a one bedroom flat - it would be a flat because they don't build one bedroomed houses - without the garden that she's used to or with neighbours she doesn't know. Perhaps she wants to move to reduce her costs and responsibilities but can't find something that wouldn't feel like she is being filed away to wait for the end? Even council tenants deserve some consideration if they are generally good tenants. And I speak as someone raised on a council estate in the 60s and 70s when you considered yourself lucky to get a place and again in more recent years (a temporary change in circumstances) when it was a nightmare option.

A friend's friend lives by herself in quite a large 3 bedroomed council house with a large garden, it's one of the ones built just after the war. She originally moved in with her then husband and two children. They've all moved on and left her with this large property. I don't understand why the local council haven't insisted she move to a smaller council house/flat. Having never lived in any sort of council housing I have no idea of the rules regarding these properties. Shouldn't some sort of contract be in effect that as well as paying your rent and keeping the property in good order - that once it gets too big for you the council find you another home. Anyone else know the rules?
Several of my friends have downsized from their private homes and found it really difficult whereas other like the freedom of a smaller property.

I think it's a cheek for a woman who is no doubt pretty comfortable (and possibly very happily married) to start making comments about other women's actions.

Parting from a husband in later years is, I suspect, not a decision lightly taken. Unless a couple are especially well off, divorce will entail considerable downsizing in both home and lifestyle and must be quite a daunting decision to make.

Is she suggesting that women should stay in a marriage where they are very unhappy or subjected to emotional or physical abuse?

Hells teeth, did not Virginia Wolf decree all women should have her own room to just sort of 'be' in?
Am not sure what this arguement is really about but I think statistically more women are questioning themselves in mid life....some feel they are stuck in a relationship they have out grown and do need to move on....surely that's their perogative?
I would never encourage anyone just to 'find themselves' on a mid menopausal whim (know I went through a real mad patch without knowing it and was in danger of doing something daft) however, if you are realy unhappy in how your life is going and can step out on your own its up to you and no one else!

Perhaps Penelope Keith would like to see all these women who suddenly need their own space housed together in some ghastly all-women commune...

These would be rich women of course. Anyone else needing to distance themselves from their OH would have to rely on social housing or private rentals.

You can't escape the fact that the increasing number of singletons of whatever age does add to the need for more and more housing. Can't see there is any answer though.Women can be independent these days and so have the choice to live alone. Just the way of the modern world.

What does she know? Someone that intolerant of other women's situations has no place expressing her misguided opinion. Wait for the 'I didn't mean it like that!' apology.