Nelson Mandela

Just watched it , thank you Grannynot.

I have a vague recollection of, I think, a Russian leader who was kept alive for months though it was obvious that he was, to all intents and purposes "dead". It was really quite grotesque. Does anyone remember this?

But you're not imprisoned, hopefully.

According to the BBC he did.

Sorry to be picky, moved, but did Mandela get a lung infection because he was imprisoned on Robben Island, or has an infection that happened there, and which perhaps was not treated very effectively in prison, recurred?

I only ask because to live on an island in Table Bay does not seem, on the surface, to be the sort of thing that would 'cause' lung infections.

Aka after our visit to Robben Island I was so moved I went straight out and bought the book, a very good read.

I think NM has had a recurring lung infection as the result of his imprisonment in Robben Island. I do hope they will let him go gently.

Grannyknot have you seen the film 'Cry Freedom'? When it finished and the lights went up, no one moved for ages we were so overcome.

Thanks for the links, grannyknot.

Aka you're right this is a time to remember others, Steve Biko was such a softly spoken person, it breaks my heart to think how he died. His widow/partner (or I'm not sure whether they were ever married) has started a political party in opposition to the ANC, talk about coming full circle www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/06/can-ramphele-mamphela-crack-south-africa%E2%80%99s-political-mould

Asimbonanga means "we will see you" a reminder and encouragement for the years he was in jail, and it was one of the hauntingly beautiful songs of the soundtrack of my youth. I love the repetitive refrains of African street music which runs through this song. Not to mention the penny whistle and the strong voices of African women. .

Thank you Granny Knot

gk What a delight to watch that link. Thanks for posting it.
Such smiling and joy.

At times like this I remember those South African freedom fighters who died young. People like Steve Biko who didn't even reach his 30th birthday. I too think Mandela has looked quite unwell, dreary and tired, for some time. I hope he slips away quietly and peacefully.

Asimbonanga Madiba www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGS7SpI7obY

Whatever is reported by the news, I feel pretty sure that Mr Mandela will be cosseted and comforted and cherished at this time and the medical care in South African private hospitals is of a very high standard too. He'll have a good death.

All I know is that if it were me and I was able to choose, I'd far rather slip away in my own bed in my own home as my time came than be dashed back and forth to hospital for weeks, if not months at such an advanced age. I have few details of Mr Mandela's case, but my perception is that he has been quite unwell for some time and having watched a dear elderly relative take 3 weeks to die in a hospital after some pretty drastic (and useless) intervention, I know that if he too had had the choice, he would have preferred not to have suffered so.

I think part of the problem with such elderly people is that they have slowly lost some of their awareness and most of the decisions are taken for them by others who are perhaps trying to consider too many other people's feelings.

I think there have been some backward steps - the current president for instance. The black population deserve better.

I agree that he should be made comfortable and allowed to die with dignity. I hope his legacy of leadership lives on after his death and does not leave a space or backward steps.

He is the soul and conscience of SA. Perhaps they are all afraid of what will happen when he is no longer around. I'm pretty sure I would be, if I lived there. I know he has been out of public life your years, but the very fact that he lives, makes a difference.

Also, I believe he IS just being made comfortable now. It won't be long, will it?

Wise words, as always, wisewoman

It is so sad that his death is being prolonged - probably for political reasons. Nelson Mandela has had a long and very active life but in the last photos I saw of him, propped up in a chair with his family around him, he looked so sad - ready to let go but it seems he is not allowed to go peacefully. Like Bags I would be delighted to hear that doctors were trying to make him as comfortable as possible. You can't "cure" old age. Perhaps it is the culture of today that everyone is going to live for ever. I once heard someone say that despite the best efforts of science the death rate remains constant at 100 per cent! Ain't that the truth?

Sometimes it seems like they are prolonging his death rather than prolonging his life! I hope he has a peaceful end when it comes.

I wonderd if the powers that be are trying to manage the reaction to his eventual death by getting the population gradually used to the idea in advance.

True, absent, about us noy really knowing what the docs are doing. What the BBC quotes could easily be a euphemistic way of saying they are trying to make him comfortable. I hope so.

Of course, we don't actually know what the doctors are doing. The announcement about the change to "critical" was, I think, made by Mr Zuma who has an axe to grind anyway, never mind handling the outpouring of grief when Mr Mandela dies. Looks fairly imminent from what I understand.