Snowden to head for Ecuador - hero or villain

It is ironic isn't it, a man who exposes the USA's bullying, dishonest international tactics ends up seeking asylum from countries where the approach to human rights, bullying and dishonest international tactics are legendary. I agree with others who say it's complicated and I disagree strongly with those who take the "if you have nothing to hide, don't worry" line. It seems to me that the USA's paranoia and insistence that it's their way or the highway has caused so many of the wars since world war 2 ended. Their presentation is of an all knowing, paternalistic and caring father figure. The reality is rather different isn't it, with a bullying, self serving approach to international affairs and a brutal criminal justice system. All prisoners shackled, the death penalty, no proper welfare or health support for the vulnerable in their own country. I don't feel I know enough about Snowdon's motivation to criticise or support him, but I lean towards support on what I do know.

This is interesting. Seems Obama administration is bullying governments around the world to not grant asylum.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23139980

He's applied for asylum in Russia now ...Ecuador have changed their mind about opening their doors to him.

Feeling increasingly sorry for this young man and his family. Imagine if it was ones own DS.
Stuck in a Russian airport hotel with no passport and nowhere to go that will welcome him and help him. Highlights the power of the US doesn't it, that no country wants to upset them. Interesting that one thing he has revealed is that the US seem to have even been bugging the EU.

Everyone who doesn't bow down to the US is a 'villain' in their eyes. I think what this man has done is great and has highlighted the one way relationship the US has with many countries around the world. He took a great risk in exposing what the US government is capable of doing and I really hope the Americans don't get to him before he reaches South America. Good luck to him.

Is it spying when you share the info with the world in general? I thought spying was when you passed info, in a clandestine manner, to countries "enemies". Though I would not anticipate that US legal system would choose to discriminate between these.

Cuba has survived and thrived despite being cut off by the US, excellent! What is that saying about your enemies enemies being your friends?

absent – brilliant satire. Well said.

I enjoyed John Kerry talking about countries hostile to America. Cuba - can't imagine why this country has become hostile to the USA when the former has been so generous with its bacterial sprays, exploding cigars, other CIA absurdities and evil trade boycott designed to ensure Cuban citizens, especially children, should die. (BTW Cuba does not accept the rent for Guatanamo Bay holiday resort.

I guess it's not about spying for him any more, but about which countries won't extradite him. I doubt if the Chinese and Russian security forces spy any more than US ones.

Seems odd to me that he said he couldn't live in a society that spied on its people and yet fled to China and Russia...

I just think he is stupid with an overwheening sense of his own importance. He and Assange have much in common.

Perhaps him and Julian Assange could be allowed to flatshare somewhere out of the way, like Syberia.

No 'puters allowed.

I'm going all James Bond now and wondering if he will have an 'accident' wherever he ends up!

Feel rather like you Butty

I think there's no doubt that Snowden knew how the consequences of his actions would pan out with America, and had already laid plans to avoid being held there. If he is extradited , I imagine he would spend the rest of his life locked up.
I do wonder how he might reconciles himself with the fact that he could be given sanctuary in a country which has a dreadful reputation for human rights.
I honestly don't know what I think. It seems his principles about exposing sensitive data will be applauded by some, even me in some respects, but feel his actions were misguided.

Still umm-ing and ahh-ing. I'm sure there's much more to learn about this.

Yes, when, I've been thinking that, certainly in fictional stories (!), there's a long tradition of people who don't think they have committed a crime running away from what is likely to be summary 'justice' – in his case probably solitary confinement and who knows what.

I think he probably made a careful conscientious decision because he believes in the right of citizens to personal privacy. For that reason, I hope he gets asylum somehwere decent.

Not sure if he is right or wrong, don't think we know enough yet and I'm happy for them to know all about me but I doubt they are very interested! What I find interesting is that the Americans actually thought the Chinese would cooperate in his extradition once they knew they had been interfered with!

It's difficult, isn't t? Maybe he thinks being a live coward is preferable to being mysteriously silenced by the CIA, as has happened to others who have threatened the USA's security. Not that it is exclusive to the USA - there have been plenty of unexplained deaths around the world when whistle-blowers have threatened to say too much.

Good article by Nick Cohen: Snowden should not play the coward by running away.

I always took the official secrets act very seriously, and signed it twice, for two different civil service jobs. So did my husband in the military. Neither of us ever divulged a word of what we knew.

So I'm wary of being too supportive of the man, but how else could this awful truth come out?

On the one hand, there seems to be as much surveillance by the US authorities, as in EGermany during the Stasi period, which is appalling. And it covers far more than the USA. On the other hand, terrorist acts have been foiled through surveillance.

Right now, my judgment on this matter is in my mental 'too hard' basket.

It's not really about them reading our emails though, is it? I don't mind them reading mine either. I don't expect they will anyhow.

The issue is whether citizens are allowed any private correspondence, by mail, by email, by phone, etc.

So I don't think Snowden is either a hero or a villain. He is just someone who thought certain practices needed bringing into the light. Perhaps he was foolish, or even wrong, but I still admire his principles.

ditto...

I'm all for the security services, both in the US and here, doing
whatever needs doing unencumbered. Anything to stave off another terrorist attack. I freely admit that the safety of my children and grandsons is of paramount importance to me.

They can read my emails whenever they like.

Until I know something more damning about him than exposing intrusive data collection, I'm wishing him well. I'm not calling him a hero, just brave.