School lunches

I think that what children eat is very important. Like Bags I believe that some health issues have been blown out of proportion. I often wonder if the demise of full cream milk was a way of getting more money by fobbing consumers off with watery milk and using the cream for other products. There was also a lot of fuss about people eating butter. Now, I believe they say that margarine isn't healthy.

However, I do think most of the convenience foods leave a lot to be desired. Whilst burgers may not be unhealthy if they contain ingredients other than meat, I do wonder about the quality of the meat in frozen burgers - as I think granjura said, it's easy and better to make burgers from fresh, lean mince. I think the occasional "unhealthy" meal is fine but a constant diet of convenience foods is, I believe, very damaging and needs to be addressed.

I believe many paediatricians are saying that there is an imminent "health time bomb" caused by the poor diet of young people. Most Gransnetters are very keen for children to be vaccinated, and some have even suggested that this should be compulsory. Given the grave concern expressed by the medical profession, why is it not then reasonable for children's diets to be scrutinised?

I went to several schools, and really enjoyed school dinners. In those days, of course, it was all fresh home cooking. Because of the ongoing cuts in staffing levels in school canteens, much of the food now is pre-prepared and seems to be lacking in variety. Because a significant number of children don't get a proper hot meal in the evening, I think children should be encouraged to have school meals instead of packed lunches.

I also think that children should not be allowed to leave the school during the lunch hour. When I was at school, only the fifth form was allowed to leave the school premises at lunchtime.

Remembering the hours I spent at school, crying into bottles of milk and bowls of rice pudding, I don't think even starvation would have made me touch them.

While my grandson has always been picky and suspicious about food his 6month old brother is quite different. He may not be swallowing much of it at the moment but he's happy to put anything in his mouth and try a taste of it.

Must add...good to see us batting this back and forward and from very different perspectives and no falling out

Well there may well be fussy eaters in richer third world families. I am talking about those children my cousin works with in Medicins sans Frontieres. The point being that these hungry children will soon forget their likes and dislikes, and children who habitually have no choice but whose diet is mainly maize or rice have no experience of refusing food. However she has just returned from a refugee camp in Lebanon and the stories she has to tell would make you weep, especially one family of four where the 'responsible' one is a 12-year old boy.

So not an assumption more an informed statement.

Tastes and ideas change, don't they. In all manner of ways as we grow, and food is just one of many. Now I don't often eat anything I don't like the look of, or the taste, smell, texture. I'm an adult and can choose and my tastes have changed and will probably continue to do so.
Children can be very specific about food, and all manner of things - and why not - as long as the child is thriving and happy.

I've no idea what school meals are like now, except from reading all these posts. A real mixture it would seem. They have their place, alongside packed lunches.

I would imagine (don't do stats) that there is only a small minority of young children who's health is seriously compromised by a poor diet. ( In the UK)

Some so-called 'assumptions' are based on common sense. If you are truly and regularly hungry, you eat what and when you can. That was the case not very long ago in the UK too, for our parents and some of us in war times, and for many of us in post war period when food was still scarce.

There is possibly no real research about 'fussy' eaters in the third world - because it would not make sense to research non issues, and that would hardly be the priority, would it! That does not mean that some children have strong dislikes, perhaps ... but that they generally will eat when they know the ned meal may not be for a while. Not sure how old you are Bags, but certainly when I was a child, if we didn't eat what was given, NO alternatives would be given. I've witnessed families in the UK where children are constantly given choice, and then alternative after alternative- until the parents give in to biscuits, chocolate, or whatever. Kids are very clever, and will soon learn that if they make enough fuss, they will win the battle with some parents.

I asked the third world countries question because I suspect you are making an assumption.

We didn't force ot cajole. We still don't.

How do you know there are no fussy eaters in third world countries? Please note, I am asking how you know, not saying you don't know.

Yes, I agree things like anorexia are complex psychological health issues. I use psychological rather than mental because complex patterns of behaviour come into it as well as ways of thinking.

PS I think forcing children to eat something they don't like or cajoling them can exacerbate the problem.

I've never had a problem eater, it's correct to say bags. My children were allowed to eat as much or as little of what was put before them and then were allowed nothing until the next meal, save a piece of fruit if desperate.
Likewise all my animals have tucked into their dinner or had it removed after a given time. I've had friends' dogs left with us for a week, that were reputedly 'fussy eaters' and after a day or so on this regime they mucked In and ate.
Most fussy eaters are made not born. Not all, I agree, but most. Lucky that children in third world countries aren't 'fussy eaters'.
But anorexia or other eating problems have more deep-rooted causes than fussy eating I'm sure you'll agree. It's a mental health issue and I do sympathise.

Exactly, gorki. It's not a simple problem. It's lots of complex problems. As a society, I think we have got to grips with the problem in the sense that we have acknowledged it. That doesn't mean the solutions are easy. Furthermore, it doesn't even mean we have a right, except democratically, to introduce solutions.

Imposing a ban on school packed lunches is not democratic. That's why I oppose it. Plus, I don't even think it would achieve anything useful since so much "well-known" food info (such as the fat misinformation jane mentioned) is wrong anyway!

Sorry should be 'don't agree that fussy eaters don't become so by chance.'
Bags I posted before I saw your comment about your sister - I do wish more resources were put into helping people with eating disorders and I know how helpless families feel in this situation

I'm with you totally Bags. My grandson is autistic and such children are known to have a limited diet because they are reticent to try new things. It is far too simplistic to make generalised statements about fussy eaters. There are many reasons for this and I re-iterate it is not a big issue unless it is made into such. There is no way my grandson would eat a school dinner at present. My daughter would be paying for nothing which she can ill afford to do. Exceptions would have to be made for some children which would lead to a host of problems in itself.

Granjura I was a very fussy eater as a child and I have no idea why. Certain foods, for no logical reason, made me want to vomit and there was nothing my parents could do about it. I would not eat vegetables of any kind and the only sort of meat I would eat was beef.
I did grow out of it when I left home to live in a flat with 3 other girls and new and different foods suddenly became enjoyable. Now I eat anything except offal and love good food.
I don't know why I was fussy as a child, but I don't agree that fussy eaters become so by chance. One of my DDs became fussy as soon as she was weaned,and still is, and the more I tried to cajole her into eating different things, the fussier she became.
Bags I remember being taught that provided children are offered a range of foods they will automatically choose a balanced diet, even though what they choose might not look like it and seem very limited. I'm sure you provide lovely food for DD3

Very sad and difficult for you, I agree and hope she will get over this, with the right support. Does she receive treatment for this? I feel for you, and it is obviously an extreme case.

However, can we, as a society, refuse to address this serious issue based on an extreme case, or in general, for the majority of children? All special cases, like the one you describe, should be taken on board, with support, like any extreme special case for anything. But the basic principle remains, that we, as a society, should somehow come to grips with this very damaging issue, for the children's sake, their health and education. Talk to any teacher and they will tell you how noticeable a poor diet is in so many children, and generally the ones who are most deprived in other ways too- and who deserve to be helped and supported (and yes, their parents too).

Perhaps difficult to imagine that the UK is one of the few countries where school meals were provided very early on, for that very reason, to ensure that all children get an adequate diet, as part of the early welfare service and war times. So the Government 'interference' or support/help, has a long tradition and history in the UK, and for good reasons.

They probably haven't watched their sister nearly starve herself to death either.

DD3 was the best fed baby and toddler in Oxfordshire. I think she is food phobic. I'm hoping she'll grow out of it.

Meanwhile, by devious means, I've managed to keep her healthy in spite of the limited variety of foods she will eat.

I want people to stop criticising and making out that it's easy when you have a problem eater to deal with. They clearly haven't faced the same problems.

aka no need to duck for cover - I totally agree.

Our grand-children were exposed to a very varied diet, including vegetable of every kind, right from the off. Fussy eaters do not become so by chance. One day gs came home and stated that he hated mushrooms, which he always loved before. Talking to the teacher, it transpired that he had been mocked at school for loving 'shrooms'. He is often mocked too because his packed lunch includes healthy things like raw carrots, tomatoes, cucumber and fruit.

So sad- just like those children I knew as a teacher, and as a parent, who intentionally make mistakes in tests so they are not mocked for getting a good mark- as they would be bullied for doing well.

jura, apologies if you are not proposing authoritarian measures to get people to eat more healthily. I must just have read your posts like that. My mistake.

Thanks for the link, aka. It's a national survey of diet and nutrition though, not a survey of The National Diet.

PS bags The National Diet etc

Exactly Mamie
Children in developed countries have far too much say in what they want to eat these days. There was a presenter on The radio on FrIday who said there is no known instance of children in this country voluntarily starving themselves to death.
When I was a child I ate what was put in front of me or went hungry until the next meal. It's about time parents stopped indulging their little overweight and/ir fussy eater and let them go hungry.
#duckandrunforcover

My GDs had a wonderful cook at their nursery. We used to laugh because the baby often smelt of garlic when we picked her up.