School lunches

I mean idealists in the grip of impractical ideologies.

You'd think the food police would learn from experience, wouldn't you, jess? They behave like a bunch of unreasonable ideologues.

We are agreed not only about silliness of compulsory desserts (where did that come from, they weren't an expectation in the house I grew up in? )
But about bloody food police. Not content with J Oliver we had an in-house officer who made sure that we obeyed to the letter (you had to do this if you wanted a "Healthy Schools" award. So, wait for it Bags at the breakfast club the caterer was not allowed to sell bacon sandwiches, or fried egg maps. But they were allowed to sell griddled eggs it seemed. (fried on a flat surface?)
We also experienced a steep drop in uptake of school meals once the JO rules were introduced because the children voted with their feet en masse and went to the chip shop or the bakery across the road.

And there's nothing wrong with a burger for lunch if that's what parents choose to feed their kids. Load of cobblers all the anti-burger misinformation there is about. Meat is good food. So are animal fats. So long as no-one who doesn't want to eat burgers is forced to do so, there isn't a problem. You can't have choice for some people and not for others.

And what ej says about schools educating children about food choices is perfectly true. The control freaks need to stop naggin'!

Sorry but schools DO loads to educate kids about balanced diets! However it really is up to parents to get their kids to eat healthily. They have been fed for five yrs before they start eating at schools. Habits set in early. I think schools should provide reasonably priced balanced meals. If they are good take up will reflect that. Too much fuss over a biscuit and occassional pkt of crisps!!

My GS eats so little he really would starve if he had to have school dinners. He does have one on Fridays when they have fish fingers. His mother went to a Have a School Lunch day to show him that they did jacket potatoes that he could eat. Unfortunately she found the potatoes completely inedible so it was back to packed lunches! She bakes things like cheese scones and cheese straws and he always has fresh fruit and a yogurt. No fizzy drinks because he only drinks water.

I think it would be more useful if schools did more to educate children about nutrition and cooking. Most children like taking new ideas home and might be able to improve their own families' diets (or just be really irritating).

Yes. Although I do remember a couple of the teachers at my grammar school trying their hardest to bully pupils into eating the horrible, lumpy mashed potato we were given with every meal!

And that would be abuse.

Not unless you could get the nutritional recipe right and force the kids to eat it...

So making kids eat school lunches wouldn't necessarily improve their diets, it would seem.

At the first school where I was HT I inherited a system where all children aged 3-7 staying all day had to have a school dinner. The meals were good and all the children ate them and enjoyed them. Staff were keen to supervise at lunch as they got a free meal as payment and they liked the food! When they got to Junior age almost all children remained on school dinners, those who brought a packed lunch tended to be kids who joined the school later! This was in subsidised ILEA days and the school cooks were properly trained and the menus came from a great ILEA cookbook! Delcious, but not particularly healthy desserts: butterscotch tart, chocolate cake and custard etc! Yum! main courses were well balanced meals and gave a choice also variety over the week.
At my second school, outside the ILEA area, the lunches were very inconsistent and I would not have forced anyone to eat them. The caterers were a private firm and working to a minimum per head to maximise profit..so Turkey Twizzlers (before they were banned!), and nothing cooked from scratch all packaged or frozen foods except the baked potatoes.

However I have seen a packet of Jammie Dodgers as a complete packed lunch and a packet of murray mints for a 6 yr olds pudding. Daily jam sandwiches not unusual either. Which is OK if kids go home to a more nutritious supper but I suspected that was not the case!

I spent a huge amount of time as a head fighting the caterers as they consistently failed to provide good enough meals. It was a big national company.

Yes, I think we know all that, granjura, but there must surely be a limit to how much the government and schools can and should interfere when it comes to feeding our children?

Otherwise they may as well be taken into 'care' from birth to make sure they're getting the right nutrition, not being exposed to smoking, etc....

Well one could say that the health cost of poor diet and obesity in the short and long run cost the community, e.g. 'us' a huge amount of money. One could also say that feeding kids crisps and chocolate and fizzy drinks on a daily basis is a kind of abuse - because it impairs their health, again short and long-term, and also their behavior, attention, etc - so their education and therefore their life. Why do we try and limit alcohol and cigarettes for the young then? A poor diet can result in diabetes, osteoporosis, and much more.

Packed lunch should not be banned ' but certainly guidelines and education should be given as to what is acceptable. It is so sad that my grandson is mocked for having healthy packed lunches by others, isn't it?

Remember those mums passing McDonald burgers and chips through the school gates because the school had banned unhealthy foods from the canteen? Don't we owe to our kids that they should be fed a 'healthy' diet. Nothing wrong with chips or crisps, or chocolate, etc, as part of a healthy diet btw. Sadly it is often the children who are also poorly fed at home who are poorly fed via packed lunches.

TBH, cold chips can be quite nice, especially dipped in mayonnaise. Not different essentially from potato salad (without the chives or spring onions) when you think about it . Lot of fuss about nothing IMO.

I think schools have to buy halal. Not sure they even get a choice. Neither do the rest of us from what the thread we had a while ago about bad (non-existent) labelling seemed to be saying. Something else forced on us by control freaks.

What about those who adhere to kosher or halal rules?

I don't think it is for the school to decide what a child should or shouldn't eat at lunch time. I disapprove of the lunch box police just as much as I disapprove of lunch boxes containing only a bag of crisps and a chocolate biscuit. I think it is reasonable to ban all soft drinks (including fizzy ones) unless these are available (which I don't think they should be) to the children having school lunches on the grounds of fairness. Ditto sweets.

Has anyone else encountered the competition of Japanese lunch boxes that contain beautiful creations which take hours to prepare and seconds to destroy? I doubt that British mums would go to such extremes but I can see a competitive edge creeping in at some schools if monitoring the lunch boxes becomes routine.

Yes... In my day...etc.etc.

If they're too picky - tough. I've no patience... we ate what was put in front of usior went hungry - and not many went hungry. Packed lunches containing cold chips? Do me a favour. I don't remember anyone having 'anorexia nervosa' in war time when food was scarce and rationed...

Bloody hell, I sound like 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells'...

It all boils down to how much responsibility should be taken away from parents, doesn't it? And however we might decry the lunches provided by some parents, would it be right to"discipline" them because they do not follow the nutritional guidelines? That doesn't seem right.

Meanwhile, there are children who are not fed, or not fed well. Maybe the money should be put into a programme of augmentation - fruit, nuts, cheese available free? But then, it would have to be provided for all children, and that would cost money, wouldn't it??

My GS, who used to be a little fussy over his food , now has school dinners , and eats everything up at home with relish .

Of course the issue is important, granjura. But just how much should schools be responsible for what our children eat, and how is it going to be possible to get the balance right? There will always be some children who refuse to eat 'school dinners' for one reason or another...

My grandson has to have packed lunches as he is highly and dangerously allergic to even the most minute amount of egg and some nuts. So school dinners are NOT an option. He has meat, fish or cheese every day, raw veg and fruit or yogurt every day, and a cereal or chocolate bar or home made (eggless) cake every day - and a great variety through the week + of course a good balanced dinner in the evening.

However, if you had witnessed what many kids have as packed 'lunch' you would be really shocked and see why the issue is important. How can kids who often also have a very poor dinner in the evening, can have just crisps, cake and a chocolate bar, or similar, day in, day out. Not just about obesity, but about getting essential nutrients, vitamins, fibre, calcium, etc. Slim kids can lack essential nutrients, and be at as much risk, or more, than obese children.

My grandchildren often have packed lunch at school. None of them are fussy eaters and they all like good food. They have commented recently that the dinners are not very nice and the oldest one who is only 7 often has to wait until 1- 1.15 for her lunch which I find unacceptable given that they breakfast at around 6.30 am . Their school has always been strict on the contents of the packed lunches (no chocolate or biscuits allowed) but they would rather have a carrot anyway. I agree that for packed lunches to be banned is a step too far. Some children are harder to feed which means their parents can make sure they are eating at lunch time by giving them what they know they like in a packed lunch. I also note that the price of the dinners has risen to £2.20 which is a lot of money. My son and DIL have 2 children at school (3 next year) and £33 a week is a bit steep.

My last school used to do a really good salad bar, baked pots, a hot meal etc (usually good!). Then they introduced "Healthy Options". Out went the salad bar, the jacket pots and the hot meal. IN came pizza slices, pasta in cardboard cartons with aa tomato-ey sauce and overpriced juice cartons and "muesli-type " snack bars. Prices also went up - and consequently, the staff who used to eat happily with the students voted with their feet to eat in the various departmental staffrooms and the kids mostly had pasta and pizza.

I agree. And it makes it all too easy for some parents to give up even trying to provide for their children, either because they'd rather hand over the responsibility to others (not saying there are many of these!), or because they feel bewildered and somehow criticised for doing what they think is right.

I agree with jess's point that insisting school meals services have to provide a pudding or 'sweet' is silly. Gove et al could start by changing that requirement.

As it is, the impression I get is that there are more and more control freaks in charge of too many things.