on line porn

vq CEOP is now under the umbrella of SOCA, the Serious Organised Crime Agency, so there is access to heavy resourcing when needed. This facilitates international investigations more readily than before. I agree with you that it doesn't fit for there to be this renewed effort to curb online porn whilst reducing the budget by 10%, but this happens all the time with priority polce work being ring-fenced whilst it develops, then being aborbed into other departments when systems are functioning well. I guess the anti-terrorism budget is priority at present, and even that has not been increased.

It's not just about child abuse - the production and distribution of images of children being abused is already illegal - though, it seems, very difficult to police.

Most internet porn involving adult participants is not illegal and is at present easily available to children as well as adults.

Again, this is not censorship, it's about adults "opting in". It is already accepted, and written into our laws, that certain things should not be available to children - cigarettes, alcohol, Cert 18 films, so-called "lads mags".

A recent piece of research uncovered the fact that a significant number of sexual assaults on children are committed by other children (and sometimes quite young children), and is it any wonder when they are exposed to the sort of explicit material that they are emotionally ill-equipped to deal with.

If the parents opt in the children will still be able to access. If a child knows how to circumvent the opt out option then the child will access porn. If the parents have certain Sky channels the children will access it. If a child's friend has access then the child has access.

Do you honestly think this will stop children accessing porn if they put their minds to it?

I don't believe children should see porn. I'm sure I made it clear that I believe that porn is acceptable when it's made by consenting adults for the entertainment of consenting adults.

At no point have I suggested that porn should be readily available for children to see.

I'm far more concerned at what children see on mainstream TV. Some soap storylines leave a lot to be desired......drinking, sex and violence seem the be the norm.

Soaps are watched by far more children than porn yet it seems that anything goes in those even though they're shown before the watershed.

What does "anything goes" in soaps mean? I agree that soaps can be a challenge for parents. I caved in to pressure from my daughters when they were about 8 to watch Eastenders. They complained they were excluded at playtime, as they were unable to join in the discussion about a current story line. We watched it together and the controversial story lines enabled us to talk through all kinds of issues. We never saw porn but we did talk about domestic abuse, gay relationships, mental health problems in an age appropriate way.
I do not see there is any problem with adults being expected to opt in to receiving porn. I sincerely hope that most parents will opt out and so ensure their children can't inadvertently/deliberately access porn. As others have said, there is a growing body of evidence about the damage that early exposure to pornography is having on children. This was increasingly clear to those of us working with children during my 30 plus years working with child abuse.

The opt in idea seems good to me. Gives people a choice.

I really can't see what the problem is here. Those who want porn can still access it, so it isn't being censored - just being delivered in a slightly different way.

i have never - ever - just found myself looking at any kind of pornography in the internet by accident - it seems to me that we already 'opt in' when we go looking for it - which is how it is accessed.

Cameron is just looking for a cheap and easy campaign to make it look as if he knows which was is up...

From conversations I have had with people who know a lot more than I do about accessing illegal sites I very much doubt whether porn can be removed. Those involved in other illegal activities seem to have no problem in circumventing the system, so why would porn be any different?
I think the important thing is to educate parents about keeping their children safe on the internet and there should be long sentences for those found with images of child porn.

Deedaa

I think porn sites can be blocked but more keep popping up all the time.
I can remember all porn sites were supposed to be blocked where I worked but 2 lady members of staff were researching something and signed in to a porn site by mistyping 2 letters.
I am sure no woman would have wanted to go on to that site.
We got on to the IT department and it was blocked within minutes but I think this must have happened on other occasions.

Frank

How on earth can you 'sign in' to a porn site by mistyping 2 letters?

You'd have to search to find the site first, then click on it to bring it up, by which time it should be obvious what sort of site it is, then create an account in order to sign in...

Why would no woman want to go on that site, Frank? Some women enjoy porn.

I don't see how you can go onto the site by accident...you might bring up the front page but you have to make an effort to go in.

Yes, of course children will get around any controls. Didnt we get around any controls our own parents put on what we read or saw as children? But I think that fact that we knew that others considered certain types of material unsuitable meant that at least while looking for the proscribed passages with glee we also thought about why they were thought unacceptable and implicitly what our parents moral values were.

I do not think circumstances have changed that much, yes, children will access pornography online, even with controls, but probably far less and the fact that parents by signing up for the controls are signalling that they consider the material unacceptable and by definition are probably not accessing it themselves will make children aware that their parents have values that preclude at the minimum, the exploitation and oppression of women for sex and that anything beyond that is even more unacceptable.

I agree children shouldn't see porn and should be taught about love and respect in real relationships before they access the make believe world of pornography.

But then we can say that for a lot of things. I've worked with children who thought that if you shot someone they died for a few minutes then came back thanks to the many shoot 'em up games that are designed for 18+. I was also called a mother- f*** by a young child who didn't realise it wasn't a normal word because he played Grand Theft Auto in which it was used all the time.....also in this particular game he ran a string of prostitutes and dealt drugs.

I don't believe children should be exposed to foul language. I have nothing against swearing. It can be very effective in certain situations but I don't think it should form part of everyday language. There is no need for it.

I don't believe children should be exposed to smoking and given access to cigarettes but they are.

I don't believe children should be in pubs. I'm not talking about those pub restaurants that cater for families to eat but rather the ones with beer gardens where children spend hours on end whilst the adults around them get drunk. Children shouldn't see adults get drunk or believe it's normal behaviour.

I don't believe children should be their parent's confidantes. Children don't need to know about the complexities of adult relationships

Far more children are affected by the above than by watching porn. Whilst I'm not advocating porn watching for children I think we should look at the many other more common things that could be damaging our children.

It's time we brought childhood back.

I agree with you 100% vampirequeen - and I speak as the woman who let her young children watch Evil Dead (which they both thought was hysterically funny)

Every day on the school walk I pass a group of mothers with pushchairs, fags and tattoos. One of the children wasn't looking where he was going and ran face first into his mother's lighted cigarette. Mother's reaction was "Don't keep running into my bloody fag!" No suggestion that she might stop smoking round small children, or keep an eye on what they were doing.

P.S. mine did watch lots of good stuff too - my son particularly liked Shakespeare. Evil Dead or Titus Andronicus - you decde.

I didn't wrap mine in cotton wool. I felt they should hear a wide range of music so got everything from Gregorian chant to the Sex Pistols but, lets be honest, it was hard to understand what the Sex Pistols were saying/screaming/shouting lol. I also introduced them to alcohol in the form of watered down wine on special occasions. As they grew up I gave them their heads but kept hold of the reins lol. They used to laugh at me when they were older and went on nights out because I always said goodbye with a warning....don't take drinks from strangers and never put your glass down...always stay with friends and text me if you're going to be late or changing your plans. In fact they would echo my words back at me but I didn't care. It was all done in affection and it reminded them to stay safe.

It's not that children should be kept in a childlike state then suddenly thrown out into the world at 18 but they need to be guided and move into the world gradually.

vampirequeen You have written the prescription for good parenting and I doubt many would argue with you but how do we protect to our best endeavour the many children with inadequate parents?

With the best will in the world you can't protect every child unless they are removed from their parents and then where do they go. Some children are and sadly have always suffered inadequate parenting. I don't think it's that most are deliberately neglected. I think the parents are too busy trying to be their child's friend and/or just don't have any idea about parenting because they were poorly parented themselves. They simply can't see that they're doing anything wrong.

Maybe instead of some of the time consuming and useless initiatives successive governments have inflicted on schools they introduce a useful subject which teaches parenting skills and about child development. Nothing complicated....just common sense knowledge like children need consistency, routine and conversation. Perhaps they could include some basic cooking ....stews, mince dishes, cheap nutritious meals.....things most of us cook every day. Let's not make it an academic subject with and exam and levels at the end. Let's just have a subject that is learning for life.

I know this won't help this generation but maybe when they have children they'll remember and use some of the things they've learned.

An old family friend once said to me "I never saw you as a motherly type but you don't seem to be doing any worse than anyone else I know" Faint praise or what! However I have my daughter with her Phd and apparently a world authority on her subject. She ha s been married to the same person for 16 years and has two gorgeous, clever children. My son was more unsettled in his teenage years, but is now in a settled relationship and while he may not have aimed high in the world of employment he has never been out of work. Neither of them has ever been in prison, a junkie or an alcoholic, so hopefully I have done something right. Or is it more luck than judgement???

I love back handed compliments lol.

Someone once asked me, 'Have you lost weight?'

I replied that I didn't know.

She then looked me up and down and said, 'Well your bottom doesn't seem to be taking up as much of the corridor lately.'

I think if your children are happy and settled in their adult choices whether that be as a high flyer like your daughter or a plodder (that's a complimentary word where I live) like your son then you've been a successful parent.

But it is the ones that are poorly parented that need the help and protection and we shouldn't just shrug our shoulders and say 'we can't protect every child'. Agree not every single child, but there are many of them and we should be trying to protect as many of them as possible.

DGD goes to a primary school that has its intake split between an area of nice owner occupied 1930s semis and one of the most deprived council estates in the area. Some children rarely reach school on time, some are clearly malnourished, some have parents who are drug addicts, DDiL meets them in the chemist getting their daily dose of methadone. Other children come from caring homes, regardless of income, where parents look after and protect their children. What do we do to support those caring for children well in difficult circumstances and those who are unable or unwilling to properly care for and protect their children.

I was bending over at work once vampirequeen and a lady made a remark about my "lovely big fat bottom" I think she was being complimentary, but I was struck speechless. My bottom isn't even that big!

When I lived in Conwall there were some areas where there was a lot of neglect and several families that were notorious for their incestuous relationships. You would see some lovely bright looking little children and then you would look at the family and think "No chance". There never seemed to be any one looking out for the children. One woman used to boast about all the holidays Social Services sent her on because she couldn't cope, but they didn't seem to attach the same importance to her family.

My MiL used to speak of similar circumstances in North Bucks, where she lived and taught in the village primary school. In several families teenage girls and their mothers would not be seen for a while and then a new baby would appear in the family registered as the older woman's child, even though she was clearly post menopausal.

In her later teaching years the Local Authority were buying up small terraces of Victorian cottages in the village and housing problem families there. She taught the reception class and would talk of children starting school with little or no language because, in her words, 'they had been talked at, talked over and talked through but never talked to'. She talked of the difficulties of getting children started on reading when some had never seen or held a book or pen, had no vocabulary, couldn't recognise shapes like squares, circles and triangles or understand concepts like 'up' and 'down'. She said it would take two terms to get these children reading ready, leaving her only the summer term to start them reading, not enough for them not to forget over the summer holidays. When they went to the next class it was assumed that they had some reading skills, which they didn't and thus started a pattern of illiteracy and educational failure.

I was out having coffee with my grandson when he was old enough to sit in a highchair, but certainly not talking yet. A lady passing by said how lovely it was to see the way I was chatting to him. But what else was I going to do - sit there and ignore him? I suppose in many cases the answer would be ignore him.

DD2 talked and read to DGD from birth. One day her friend, who'd had a baby during the same month, asked her why she bothered talking to DGD as she couldn't talk back.

She couldn't understand why DGD chatted and loved books from an early age whereas her child struggled with both.