Unsatisfactory OFSTEDs of grammar schools

I don't doubt it Jess. I know of someone who went from comprehensive to grammar for A levels and went back to the comprehensive school teachers for coaching. He couldn't believe how bad the teaching was and how lazy the teachers were at this particular grammar school.
I am really glad that progress data is showing this up.

Oh, me too!

Comprehensive schools have had to / are learning rigour and accountability, and grammar schools are forgetting these vital elements. Not all of them, I hasten to add, but there are always those which are only grammar schools by name, but which still attract parents seduced by a pretty uniform and the word "grammar".

But- how do grammar schools add value? (That is, make sure their students exceed the expectations provided by the data.) They take in children with very high scores at 11, most of whom should, therefore, get high grades at 16. If they don't get these grades, then there is something intrinsically wrong with the system. Maybe it is over confidence, maybe - see above - a loss of rigour. Maybe it is to do with students' perception that they do not need to fight hard; a mixed comprehensive school would teach them, and their teachers, how to do that - how to strive!

It is no surprise!
Obviously some excellent grammar schools about..and so they should be in terms of results... but think there has been a lot of complacency. The London /City Challenge programme was very successful at improving progress and outcomes for children in urban comprehensives and raised the bar. Some schools have not caught up!

There is also the problem of the boards changing the grading re English and Science.
Many schools had worse results than expected this year and last.

Last year's drop in results was mostly about the C/D border and I wouldn't expect that to have too much impact in grammar schools, Jendurham. Besides which, this is about progress data, plus a lot of other things that Ofsted will be taking into account before coming to a judgement.

Yes indeed Mamie, in a grammar school they should be pulling in A* - B for pretty much all the exam entries. Teaching, in theory, should have improved hugely since I was a teacher in the 70s because OFSTED has been slowly rising the bar every 3 years or so.

Definitely improved since I started teaching in the seventies, Jess. I think the focus on pedagogy and the material in the various strategies have made a huge difference. I was lucky enough to observe hundreds of lessons over a fifteen year period in all phases and I think teaching is better and more consistent than they used to be. I think the big shift in attitudes is about teachers taking responsibility for progress. I think there used to be an attitude that saw the teacher's role as presenting the information and blaming the pupils if they failed to learn. Not universal, of course, but quite common. It was certainly noticeable in my children's grammar schools. Still seems very common here in France too.

Teachers were left to fly by the seat of their pants weren't they, back then. There was absolutely no structure or learning methodology you were supposed to follow, and not much back-up for discipline problems.In one school, as the new science teacher, I was given the lab that was in another block - nowhere near the rest of the science team (or any senior staff). And of course you'd get given more than your share of "lower sets".
I had 2 long nails in my car tyre, obviously been propped up behind the wheel while parked (long nails do not go in at right angles on their own) - did this happen in school I wondered. The next week there was some broken glass put carefully behind my back tyre in the school car park. Head teacher just shrugged as if he didn't believe me. This event contributed to me leaving the profession.
I wonder about private schools as well mamie and what goes on in classrooms there.

Yes, Jess. I remember the "here is your classroom, good luck!" days too. The Head used to peer through the class panel in the door every so often, perhaps to make sure we were still there? I also remember people saying that if a class had a poor maths teacher one year then they would have a better one next year etc. with no thought of helping teachers to improve. Local advisers were known for having theories about powder paint or certain coloured ink.
There was still some very good teaching (and some pretty awful), but very little accountability in the system.

I went to a grammar school myself. There were people in my class who failed to get a C grade, which meant they failed, as there was no CSE backup then. When I was teaching I had a class where I had to teach both CSE and GCE to the same group. Then later I taught 100% course work.
My elder son is a teacher, a head of music, and his wife is a teacher as is my other son's partner, so I do know a bit about the system. I got out when the National Curriculum came in, as I wanted nothing to do with it.
We used to have inspections pre-Ofsted, but the inspectors were there to help you, not criticise.
This government is doing to Education what it is doing to the NHS, trying to privatise it by the back door.

Was that GCSEs or O levels jen? I am not sure which era you are referring to.
I went to a grammar school as well, and the teaching was very patchy.
The kind of teaching I received would be considered inadequate now. Even the best of it.

The school I went to only taught GCEs which were O level. That was in the 60s.
I was teaching when Keith Joseph brought in GCSEs . Employers were complaining that they would not be able to tell which were the brightest pupils, so he helpfully said that A-C was the equivalent of O levels. So from then on everyone said they had failed if they got a D. Which is what the Tories wanted anyway.
My husband's brother was one of the first year to do CSEs in a secondary school. He is now 61.
I only ever taught in comprehensives in the 70s and 80s.

Ah right, thanks. It is difficult to remember the ins and outs. I remember KJ, when sec of state for Education and Science saying he had never had a science lesson because he had had a classical education.