Bedroom tax breaches human rights.

That is not an average price for an ex-council flat though. It must have been extensively improved to make that amount.

Pretty average for some parts of London Elegran - many go for much more. Don't forget that councils own property that's not typical 'council housing'.

A colleague of mine was a council tenant in an elegant 4-storey white stuccoed house (she had two floors). She eventually bought it for a song and sold it for a huge amount and moved to a large house in the suburbs.

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/oct/05/bedroom-tax-means-more-evictions-housing-boss

Good link Jendurham. It was so predictable that this would happen. I was first politicised on housing issues when I watched Cathy Come Home. I was 17 and used to babysit my younger sisters on Wednesday when my parents went for a drink with friends. I watched the Wednesday play at 9 after middle sister, then 13 had gone to bed. I'm neither as naive or as idealistic as I was when I first saw this play, but I haven't lost the basic instinct that safe and secure housing is a basic need. In addition to years of experience of working with families where housing issues contribute to difficulties, we have family members with mental health/other difficulties who face rent arrears due to a combination of the bedroom tax and other cuts. These are families/individuals who have lived in their homes for 20 years plus. How can this be contributing to a better, fairer society as we're promised, all being in this together of course

Another very financially stupid as well as inhumane idea. If they carry this through the local authorities say they will be paying more in accommodating homeless families.

cathy come home was a totally different scenario - it was a time of Rachmanism and the rest.
it is NOT a tax - the idea is to free up social housing family homes for those most in need (i,e, families) - so think of the children who would enjoy a bit of garden and more room to play.
disabled people are exempt
pensioners are exempt
families already filling the bedrooms they have are exempt.
private tenants are not affected and may well be overcrowded.
saying it violates human rights is totally off the wall - regardless of what the UN may speculate. do look at what was the intention behind the Human rights act

Private tenants are affected if they're claiming housing benefit.

That's a Utopian view of the situation, Mollie. If it was as simple as you seem to think, it might work, but the fact is that residents are having their benefit cut without being given an alternative place to live. It is entirely possible that a couple whose family has left home would like to have the option of moving to a smaller house, but there are none available, yet they are having to lose their benefit because they have 'spare' room(s). Is this fair? I think not.

Mollie, it's different in the way that other issues are different. My generation were much less deprived than my parents, who were less deprived than my grandparents. The similarity is that now, as when Cathy Comes Home was made, is that impoverished, disadvantaged people suffer much more than those of us who have been more fortunate in our lives. Why should folks who've paid rent on their homes for 20 years (or less or more) be expected to leave their homes. There are no places for them to go. The crisis in affordable housing can't be a surprise to anyone, especially those in politics. This will put huge stress on individuals and on families, break up communities, and impact on the support systems people have developed.

mollie - where do you suggest they go, when there are no smaller properties available? This has been discussed at length so I do not intend to rehash all the arguments, but you don't solve the problems of one group of people by causing hardship for another group.

Mollie doesn't known this has been discussed at length. This is the weakness and the strength of such forums. New people have the right to discuss issues without being made to feel bad. She raised a valid point.

I didn't say she couldn't raise it again - only that I am not going to go through all the arguments. She can always put 'bedroom tax' into the search box.

I didn't say she couldn't raise it again - only that I am not going to go through all the arguments. She can always put 'bedroom tax' into the search box.

Mollie Judging by some of the reports I have seen on TV and in the press, we may not have Rachmann but we certainly still have many unscrupulous landlords who are taking advantage of the chronic housing shortage, offering sub-standard and sometimes dangerous accommodation and charging a fortune. I think it would be better if taxes went towards building council houses rather than to housing benefit which lines the pockets of these greedy landlords. The bedroom tax doesn't address the real issues.

There are reports that increasing numbers of people who cannot find smaller accommodation are getting into debt. Even if smaller accommodation can be found, if people are required to move every time their circumstances change, there will ultimately be a cost to society in terms of mental and physical illness, family breakdown, disruption to children's schooling, etc., etc. Also, many families have at some time supported grown up children/siblings/other family members by accommodating them, for example, if they can't get a job after leaving university or they lose their job or following relationship breakdowns or illness.

I still think the basic idea of this act is sound BUT it's too draconian and like so many things coming from Parliament these days just wasn't thought through.
In this day and age having a spare room borders on being a necessity - from visiting offspring in a separated relationship to something as seemingly mundane as a loudly snoring partner.
And the majority of homes built by housing associations are two bed - penalising people for living in a home previously approved of without offering alternative accommodation is unfair and I think local councils aren't giving tenants the leeway they could.
I think the original thought was to encourage single people living in a family size home to downsize which is perfectly laudable. It's been done before with councils and housing associations offering money for moving costs. That wasn't too successful either due to lack of suitable smaller properties. One bed flats tend to house young singles - often noisy and not very salubrious. Who wouldn't rather stay put.

If my MIL did not have a spare bed we would have to sleep on the floor if she was ill in bed, or during the weekend, when one of the family visits and does some of her care.

Good post Nfk

Yes, a very good post, Nfk.

www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/1970s-bedsits-brought-Hull-council-estates/story-19828171-detail/story.html

This could be a couple whose children have left home, and are aged between 50 and 65. If they are renting from the council, they could be made to move here, if they do not have enough money to pay the difference. People who live in London are being moved up to Yorkshire.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://falseeconomy.org.uk/campaigns/item/stop-bedroom-tax-atos-assessment-and-benefit-caps&sa=U&ei=PNVSUqiNNKXW0QW09IHgCQ&ved=0CBYQFjAF&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNExD0cHLtJQLIwVpEhZ0Utm3TId2w

Some people on here need to read this. Hope you can, it's a long link.

Mollie, may not be Rachmann, although I have my doubts, but definitely gerrymandering as per Shirley Porter. Where is she now? I think she is still trying to hide her millions.

Thanks for that, JenD - it says it all, doesn't it? Are there some people who are unconvinced that this is simply a nasty, spiteful attack on some of the poorest people in Britain?

Two good links Jendurham. I've been in a couple of those bedsits. You have to be able to climb a winding staircase from the front door to the landing. Fine if you're fit and healthy but a lot of people being forced to move are not. You can hear people walking beneath your bedsit and of course the local kids tend to congregate in them especially if it's cold or wet. Can't blame the kids as a lot of the youth centres have been closed due to cuts. It can be unnerving walking into or leaving your home through a group of young people even though you know they're not going to hurt you. However my main worry about these bedsits is that the front door is the only entrance. A fire at the door will trap anyone inside.

They weren't popular because of all the problems associated with living in them. Now they're bringing them back to house people who have no other choice. Remember though there are only 58 of them. A drop in the ocean compared to the people who are being penalised for daring to have a second bedroom and being unable or unwilling to move.

Thanks JenD. I've signed the petition.

thank Jend - I've signed the petition as well.