What has this government achieved?

You can't con a GP or the housing association, and as for benefits!
Anno, thanks for asking but I,m afraid you can't stop them from getting hold of your hard earned money, that,s ,the problem. They keep getting voted in. I think the voters should have to demonstrate some knowledge,and common sense before they are allowed the vote.I dare say, if pressed I could name someone who does something for the community and might do so even if they were not getting paid and receiving perks.Eloe corruption is corruption wherever it occurs, I don't think we should be trying to set one set of corrupters against another, my corrupters are worse than yours, type of attitude.
Iam, if the 64 relates to your age, then I have no claim to be the original "Mr Angry" but I have had many years more than you to have been angry about something. I hate to say this, I despise the people who trade on their age, and use it like a badge of honour, but I have seen most of the things that we are complaining about, being repeated time and time again, and the same old excuses trotted out, the same platitudes,"We must ensure that this never happens again" Probably quoted in some of our lifetimes just after the 1st World War.and latterly in relation to the child deaths we have all heard about and despise.
The left and the right are supposed to be against each other, that's the game. Anyone that sees something that could be beneficial but is proposed by the left cannot agree with it on principal, if they are on the right, but what is principled about that.
What we want is a return of the grammar schools.When everyones little Johnny has to have a certificate, or a cup or some other award to prove his existence something is wrong.Get a backbone, some kids are more academic than others, some are more practical, don;t try to lump them together, stream them, even if it means different schools. Nowt wrong with an elite nowt wrong with a plumber, joiner or the like but neither will benefit when mixed together.
As for the blued bit I think multiculturalism and religion has more to do with the problem than education. After all we had over a decade of education, education education that should have sorted all the problems out. ever conscious of , "if it's working (to a great degree) don't fix it"

Yes, Mamie, it's a dreadful indictment of Gove's policy, but the Guardian calls it a 'devastating blow' which I doubt: the man is so thick skinned as to be armour plated.

Oh, make me stand in the pedants' corner. I have just seen my grammar in my last post. get should be getting.

You can add this one to the list.
www.theguardian.com/education/2013/oct/17/ofsted-al-madinah-free-school-michael-gove
I have not seen one jot of evidence yet to support the notion that free schools are raising standards.

To go back to OP, it seems one of the things this government has excelled as is setting the left and right against each other.
Public services seen by some as all bad, job for life/gold plated pensions etc. All derogatory terms, used to dismiss people who dedicated their working lives to teaching/nursing/social work etc.
Deserving - are you the original Mr Angry

And how on earth do you suggest that I prevent my council get its hands on my council tax? Do tell!

And, of course, we never seen corruption in the private sector do we?

deserving, do you know anything about foodbanks? You cannot just turn up to them and be given a handout. You have to be referred by your GP or the benefits agency or your housing association. You are sounding like you have been taken in by the DM.
The councillors I know are very intelligent people. You slur a whole group of people who put a lot into the local community.

People who use foodbanks are increasing in almost all areas where there are these banks.
What do they expect, more food banks more scroungers to use them.
One lady interviewed, had the correct response, she endeavoured to ascertain if the applicants were genuine, as far as she was able. She didn't want people that came from the off licence, and the tobacconists queuing for food handouts, she didn't think it went down well with those that contributed.
Most councils that are on the brink of liquidation, or bankruptcy will be, I think you will find, those councils who are mainly labour controlled, have councillors who are almost guaranteed a position, (we always vote labour), and haven't the brains they were born with.It is stupidity to let them get their hands on your council tax.

Good morning Jendurham It is the North East universities that use the quotation "apparently bragging to your relatives that........" And if you read my post again you will see that i was giving the reasons why they feel young people are not attracted to Engineering. They also say that many young people do not "understand engineering" by this they mean that they can only see a very small part of it and sadly many still imagine it as an old man working at a lathe in some mucky old factory.

Middlesborough won't go into liquidation. As I said earlier they will shut every good service down in order to keep the people at the top (a bit like what Sunderland are doing now) . There is an awful lot of corruption within local government (I could tell you a few stories about my own local authority).

Yes I will be annoyed if and when my bins don't get emptied and will be very cross to think that either the bin men/women are on strike (the most likely) or they have been made redundant (highly unlikely) and the leader of our council will still be sitting at his desk enjoying his 6 figure salary on the back of it.

Off to work now as have a very busy day.

Gillybob, you were the one that said, "Apparently bragging to your relatives that Tristan is to become an accountant is much preferable to saying he is going to work in engineering".
Grannyactivist has two sons, one training to be an accountant, the other an engineer. You also said it was difficult to get engineers as nobody wanted to be one.
You were also the one who said that people losing their jobs in the council wouldn't affect you. I do not call that reasonable at all.
Eloethan and Grannyactivist have both listed the useful jobs that are performed by council workers.
Hopefully you will not have to see a town like Middlesborough go into liquidation, because it will be more than a few food banks needed then.
I have worked in both the public and private sector. So did my husband and both my sons, so I know about both areas. I do not dismiss either, as I realise both are important.
I imagine you get very annoyed when your bins are not emptied.

Have just got in from work jendurham to read your post. I do hope that you are not being sarcastic or deliberately provocative when you suggest " I give Grannyactivists son a job when he is qualified" and I have never seen a town " go bust " , they would just close all services such as pools, libraries, care facilities etc. and continue to pay the managers their huge salaries and expenses. I don't know what I have ever said to make you so awkward towards me. Is it because I work in the private sector perhaps and dare to have an opinion that might disagree with your own? I have tried to be reasonable and do actually agree with you on quite a few issues regarding the North East. Whatever. I am too tired to be bothered. Goodnight all.

Maybe Gillybob will be able to give him a job when he's qualified, Grannyactivist, providing he lives in the right area.
Riverwalk, they are relaxing the rules for Chinese banks to come here.
I've just seen a bit of Emily Maitliss interview with Osborne about him doing business with communists!
Hope you do not live near Middlesborough, Gillybob. They might have to go bust with the latest round of cuts. I admit Ray Mallon said that was worst case scenario, but they have been known to happen.

Public service workers aren't people who sit around all day doing useless jobs. They include nurses, cleaners, radiologists, dietitians, cooks, porters, doctors, teachers, care workers in homes, social workers, librarians, dustmen, "lollipop" ladies/men, etc., etc. - all people who are doing useful and necessary jobs.

The "gold plated pensions" that are often spoken about make it seem that everybody in public service is in receipt of huge amounts of money every month, when in fact many public service workers receive very modest pensions.

I agree that there is far too little encouragement for the engineering and manufacturing sectors. It seems that our economy is now much too dependent on the financial sector, which has been at the root of most of our problems, and the service sector - neither of which are creating goods for local consumption or export.

gillybob there may well be overspending in some government departments and many times I've heard about civil servants having cushy jobs with brilliant pay and conditions, but that's not been my own or my husband's experience.
My husband (a National Award winner in his field) deliberately chose to have a career that served the public good. Before becoming a government employee my husband worked in the private sector. His contemporaries in the private practice he was with are now earning vast sums of money for far fewer hours than he works and they have the support of secretaries and administrators. My husband has no secretarial support and rarely works for less than 60/70 hours a week. This week he left for work at 4.30am on Monday and is due to return home this evening, hopefully by about 9.15pm. His overnight expenses are reimbursed, but the time he spends away from home is not. (He does not, as some people assume, have an 'expenses allowance', but gets back exactly what he pays out and (rightly) has to have the receipt to prove it.) He literally does the work of five people; there were seven in the team when he started and now there are just two left, but the work hasn't diminished. Before we went on holiday he slept at the office for three nights in order to meet deadlines. There is absolutely no slack anywhere in his department and nor has there been in all the time he's worked there. I do get rather weary of hearing the same old story of how easy civil servants have it compared to the private sector.

On a brighter note I do have one son who is training to be an accountant, but the other one is studying to be an engineer!

As far as I understand the relaxing of visas for the Chinese is for tourists and students, not workers.

Surely it's a good thing to encourage high-spending visitors.

Regarding the Chinese, Janthea, do you have an iphone?
In yesterday's Guardian
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/14/forced-student-labour-china-apple

Another thousand council workers in Middlesborough at risk of losing their jobs on tonights news. 15000 council workers have lost their jobs in the north east over the last 3 years. Is this really what you want, Gillybob?
I asked if you had the day off because you seemed to be spending a lot of time on Gransnet today, exactly what you accuse the council workers of doing, having non-jobs.

I don't like people in private, or public work losing their jobs. I don't like the way this coalition behaves as though it has a mandate for their slash and burn approach to public service, or their disregard for small businesses. I value the arts, and despair of the way in which students are now being discouraged from studying them. Like everyone else, I value engineering students for example. A friend in her 20's has emigrated to Australia, along with her engineering degree and Masters. She and her similarly qualified bf couldn't get work here. Same for the son of another close friend, also living well in the land of Oz and working as an engineer.
I genuinely fear we are living in Dickensian type times. The deserving and undeserving poor. None of the posters I've seen here would support people exploiting our benefits system, but the way in which benefit claimants are being demonised is disgusting.
Food banks in 2013 UK - how scary is that

I had to smile about Cameron's "Land of Opportunity" or some such nonsense. The opportunity to have a pee in our home town would be great, but the council has closed all the public loos for lack of cash.

And today I discovered that all the council workers who had been involved in the arts have now been hived off into a limited company and get their income by spending their whole time fighting for grants from the likes of the lottery.

And most of the administrative functions of the council are now undertaken by a private company, so, for instance, you cannot ring up someone in the educaiotn department any more - you have to ring this private company.

It's all quite pitiful.

I wonder what the government think the word "service" means.

No Jen I have had my office and desk taken over today and I am sitting in the workshop (being deafened by the noise) and playing on a computer! I am away (with work) tomorrow so will no doubt have to come back here tonight (to do what I should have been doing) after I have been and seen to Grandma.

My son does his own washing up etc. He works for the council and does it in his own office.
He got his degree as a mature student, and the interviews he went for he was told they wanted youngsters that they could pay less to. This was when he was 30, and had no family, so after a year of trying he went back to the job he had before he got his degree.
Is it your day off today?

Over the years we have found it extremely difficult to recruit Jenduram . Firstly we find that young graduates are leaving university with very little or no experience with this illusion that they should have a starting pay of £30k plus .
Secondly working for an SME is a very different thing to working in a big company and many people in Engineering simply cannot work in a small business. They have either come from bigger industry and are used to being propped up by labourers, tea ladies, cleaners etc. or they have a need to be a boss of something and in a small business you dont really have many places for bosses.We have a stict rule that in our small company everyone cleanes up after themselves, everyone washes their own cup, empties their own bin (you know wat I mean). We do not emply labourers only Engineers.
Thirdly we cannot (and no longer even try to) match the salaries of the likes of Nissan who swallow up everyone who's any good.

I meet regularly with the universities who all tell me that it is not fashionable to be "in Engineering". It does not command the salaries that being an accountant, lawyer etc. does and does not hold the same status. Many people view Engineering as a dirty job and persuading young people otherwise is difficult. Apparently bragging to your relatives that Tristran is to become an Accountant is much preferable to saying he is going to work in Engineering.

We are Control System Engineers, Jen.

Gillybob, I only listed the foodbanks in the rich towns on purpose. There are foodbanks in Ashington, Amble, Bedlington and Blyth as well. There are, as you say, too many fooodbanks. It's an obscenity in one of the richest countries in the world.
Morpeth has the headquarters of the council, so that's what getting rid of 1500 council workers over three years in Northumberland does.

An interesting thing about the nuclear power station in Hinckley which is to be owned by the Chinese and the French is that EDF say they are not going to use engineers from Britain because we no longer have the skills.
So what sort of engineering does your company do, Gillybob?
My son got a degree in electro mechanical engineering, then couldn't get a job as an engineer.

Yes I do Jendurham Is there perhaps a connection that they are the richest towns in the North East and that many council workers live there? Not trying to pick an argument just wondering. There is very little actual industry around these areas although I have noticed a lot of immigrants in Alnwick now and wonder what kind of work is there available for them in these areas? I find it obscene that foodbanks exist (or rather need to exist) in this country at all. It is 2013 and we have the biggest divide between the have and the havenots. Likewise the North/South. I believe the amount of people relying on them is somewhere in the region of 20,000 per week in the North east alone.

I agree with you about the dualling of the A1 which would have happened years ago had the same stretch been in the South. I travel the A1 regularly and the single lane stretches are death traps as well as snail lanes.