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Grangemouth to close - ouch!

(9 Posts)
JessM Wed 23-Oct-13 10:39:33

The Scottish Nationalists must be very concerned. It is not so much the loss of 800 well paid jobs (bad enough) but the fact that Grangemouth production accounts for 10% of Scotlands "GDP" - if I understood the discussion on radio yesterday. This would of course be real GDP if they were independent plus the money that would have to be spent importing refined petrochemicals from across the border. We ain't seen the end of this one.
Results from a stand off between unions and owners.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24631342

hebrideanlady Wed 23-Oct-13 10:58:39

We have just filled up with petrol, not panic buying, we just needed to.
I for one am quite concerned, the petrol here is so expensive, I hope they get it sorted

JessM Wed 23-Oct-13 11:34:41

Can only get more expensive if this goes through I guess.

gillybob Wed 23-Oct-13 11:55:48

Accordingl to local news this morning, they are apparently losing £10 million pound per month and need to restucture the company. The workforce are members of "Unite" union and are currently out on strike refusing to accept new terms and conditions.

Avaolivia Wed 23-Oct-13 18:43:42

You just wonder if Unite were lured into a situation that they had no control over. Effectively doing the work for the company. In these days when millions of workers are on pay freezes, reduced hours and pay was it not suicidal of the employees to risk everything particularly when all the information was that Jim Radcliffe is not the kind of guy to play Russian roulette with? Also, it has stopped Alec Salmond's yes campaign dead in the water if the closure goes ahead.

Granny23 Wed 23-Oct-13 20:47:07

A lot of misinformation swirling about with diverse interests seeking to muddy the waters.

For one thing the Union are not and have never been on strike. They agreed to postpone strike action pending further talks and Ineos immediately shut down the plant such that the workers were actually 'locked-out'.

Grangemouth was operating comfortably in profit (probably still is?) until Ineos revalued the asset, i.e. the plant, down from millions? billions? to zero - a piece of accounting slight of hand - thus creating an 'on paper' loss. Why? The strategy seems to have been to co-erce either the UK or Scottish Goverments, or both, to put in taxpayers money to shore up the profitability of the plant. Some people have said this is a very risky strategy as it leaves the plant open to a Compulsory Purchase Order at market value - currently zero.

Stephen Deans, not only the full time Unite shop steward at the plant but also the chair of Falkirk CLP, was suspended because management discovered that he had made, in work time, from his office inside the plant, over 300 contacts by phone/e.mail with Scottish Labour HQ in a 3 month period, but scarcely any, perfectly legitimate in terms of his job ones, with Unite HQ. He has been reinstated pending the result of an internal enquiry into his conduct which is due to report its findings on Friday.

Avaolivia suggests that this will have stopped Alex Salmond's yes campaign dead in its tracks. I have a big suspicion that this was the intention of 'the powers that be' but in the event, my extensive reading of all the websites that allow comments (as opposed to the MSM) shows that public opinion is applauding the Scottish Government's efforts to bring this dispute and the threats from both sides to a sensible, reasonable conclusion, while noting that relying on the strength of the United Kingdom, 'better together' has done nothing to prevent this impasse and indeed has created the conditions in which it has been possible. Also noting that the main protagonists are a trade unionist who appears to spend more time on Labour Party business than on fighting for the workers he is suppose to represent and a billionaire business man who contributes not one penny piece of the profits of his offshore businesses, nor his private wealth to UK taxation, but does share some of his fortune by way of donations to the Conservative party.

BTW The YES campaign has members and supporters from all political parties and none. I and thousands more of my generation, have been supporters of Scottish Independence since way before Alex Salmond joined the cause.

POGS Wed 23-Oct-13 22:26:09

Unite have got exactly what they want haven't they.

They don't give a flying fig for reasonable dialogue nor their members. The workers have made a decision to back the Union at the expense of their jobs, they made their choice now they will have to live with that choice. I feel so sorry for the employees who would have preferred to settle the problem and kept a roof over their families heads.

This problem has not happened overnight for goodness sake. It has been going on for a long time. INEOS has been haemorrhaging money hand over fist but it was prepared to go ahead with a major investment to bring the company back to strength. To do this it asked the workers to accept a pay freeze and end the final salary pension scheme (£200m deficit).

It is correct to say there has not been a strike but it is not as simple as that, they had been working to rule and banned overtime I believe. The Unite Union has held a gun to the head of INEOS with the threat of strikes and it has put the case of Stephen Deans, shop steward and full time union convenor ahead of the continued employment for hundreds of fellow union members.

Deans was 'accused' of signing up union members to the Labour Party in Falkirk without their knowledge. He was cleared by the Police and 'eventually' by Labour. He is however being investigated by INEOS as to whether or not he has misused company facilities. The investigation was due to be completed by Oct 25th but the 'strike' threats and refusal to do O.T and work to rule forced their hand. Unite, I believe picketed Morrisons and Asda in protest, trying to get them to stop trading with INEOS. That's brains for you.

As for INEOS being an off-shore business I will remind you of this. INEOS moved it's Head Quarters to Switzerland in 2010 to reduce it's tax bill, after the Labour government refused to allow it to defer payments at the peak of the credit crunch. I will also remind you of the hypocrisy of the Unite Union when it comes to paying taxes. Perhaps somebody will inform me further but I believe Unite, GMB etc. exploit tax loop holes and do not pay Corporation Tax on their investments. They are all in it together as the saying goes.

This is not over and I think the Unite Union could possibly cause the closure of the refinery within months.

JessM Wed 23-Oct-13 22:32:03

Two very interesting views on this news today. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Sel Wed 23-Oct-13 23:05:50

How very sad for all the workers there who believed the dinosaur union rhetoric. Another one bites the dust. Average salaries at Grangemouth were £55k a year - take a 2 year pay freeze, end unsustainable pensions scheme - conditions accepted by many industries who have to compete globally or lose your jobs. It's catastrophic for the area and needn't have happened. Meanwhile the Union bosses sit comfortably mouthing their weasel words caring for their members.