Are you buying a poppy this year?

Previously I have always bought a poppy from a nice lady who comes to the door. Irrespective of whether it's wrong to only help people in the armed forces, they do deserve help, and I always thought the British Legion do sterling work. I also give to civilian charities who help those who for varying reasons are not as fortunate and lucky as I am.

However, this year I will not being buying a poppy. If the British Legion can afford to send me a box containing two carefully designed notelets with envelopes, a very nice pen - and a poppy. Also a postage paid envelope and standing order form which I shall ignore as I don't like the feeling of being manipulated.

I was wrong Martin Niemoller lived until 1984

Separate topic. Wars are caused by governments not by arms manufacturers. They are often brought into being by governments. Car manufacturers do not cause accidents, drivers do.

It is easy to be anti-war but it needs to be remembered that not fighting kills as many people as fighting. I opposed the Iraq war, not because I thought it would save lives, it wouldn't, but because I thought, rightly, it would make matters worse not better. Sadam Hussein's regime had killed and was killing many tens of thousands of Iraqi's and since his overthrow Iraqis have continued to kill other Iraqis at the much the same rate, if not more prolifically than Sadam did. All the war did was make a bad situation worse.

If we hadn't fought WW2 and had allowed the Germans to invade, us not fighting would not have stopped the German invasion, as many British people would have died, but different ones, Jews, the disabled and ill, political opponents and their families, plus of course most of the Jews who survived the Holocaust because we went to war.

Remember Martin Niemoller's poem (he was killed by the Nazis)

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out

I am not advocating war, just pointing out that sometimes the price of pacifism can be very high and perhaps the alternative is preferable.

I will wear my poppy with pride in remembrance of my grandfather, two great uncles and distant cousin who died in WW1 and the contribution my grandfather and his seven sons made in WW2 that has enabled so many people in this country and elsewhere in Europe to live peaceful prosperous lives in their own communities for 70 years. Why are so many people from other countries outside Europe so desperate to get to Europe at almost any cost?

Eleothan yes in a perfect world injured members of the services would be taken care of by the government of the day, but we don't live in a perfect world and until that day arrives charities like the British Legion are filling the void left by governments. As I said before I don't support war but the men and women who are sent to war.

Gracesmum, Like merlot I grew up on army bases. This was at a time when the army was much bigger and personnel moved around much more. I had had 21 'permanent' addresses by the time I was 21.

My experience, and more recently from friends and Godchildren in the forces is that most bases in any of the forces have a thriving social life within them and can give each other much support when the men are away but they are also part of the community. The children go to local schools, families shop in local shops, use local pubs and entertainment facilities. I would say army life compares very favourable with the lives of many single mothers living alone on large estates.

While young members of the lower ranks will not be able to afford to own property nowadays many service personnel own and live in their own homes off base. I am not suggesting army life is perfect, nor that it does not have its own particular problems but I do not think those problems are any worse than those of others not in the army. Just different.

I do not agree with or want to glorify war, and very much agree with Eleothans' views too.

However the British Legion do fantastic work, much more than most people realise, and are truly worth supporting.

My son has served in Afghanistan as a front line medic, and has seen all the horrors of war. I have always worn a poppy, in memory of the older generation, of whom so many were lost, and too for my son and his fallen friends and comrades. It is my expression of support and recognition of their bravery and sacrifice. It is the least I can do.

that should be '... but as supporting a charity'. Or something like that.

I wear a knitted poppy that I made myself (I don't like the grotty plastic ones that fall apart a a moment's notice but I still donate and show off my knitted one). Last year I had fun and made loads and carried them around and when people commented on them (which they did) I would take one out of my handbag and give them one like mine and tell them that they have to go and donate.

Having come to live in this country 12 years ago and at that stage I think I was trying to fit in with anything and everything that seemed 'traditional', I now never think about buying/wearing a poppy in any other way as supporting a charity.

As the mother of a serving Marine Commando I just wish that people would learn to tell the difference between the people that cause the wars (polticians and world leaders) and the poor souls who end up fighting in them (the service personnel). If these brave folk didn't put their lives opn the line we wouldn't be safe. Ignorance appalls me!

I always buy and wear a poppy, but I share your views Eloethan.

In a perfect world of course taxation should cover the human cost of the wars we fight, Eloethan, just as it should cover all sorts of other costs of helping the disadvantaged. And of course service families should be better housed, as perhaps should the poor as a whole.

But a perfect world cannot be achieved by taxation alone, and ultimately these are arguments against charitable giving as such.

I don't "wear my poppy with pride" but I do wear it, because I think it represents a deserving cause and the BL is a well-run charity.

I've got my white one for peace again.

I think there may be real misunderstandings about the work that the Royal British Legion does. Having been a beneficiary of the RBL I can only say that they truly are a deserving organisation and do so much more than supporting bereaved families.
Check here to see the help they offer.

I haven't bought a poppy for years. I too feel that if the government sends men and women out to fight often pointless wars then those that are wounded and the families of those that are killed should not have to rely on charity to have their needs met. I accept that such financial support would have to come from taxation.

I also think that the sub-standard accommodation in which many armed forces' families are housed in makes a mockery of successive governments' supposed concern for the armed forces. Attending commemmoration services with sad faces doesn't address the real, practical needs of soldiers and their families but it's a lot cheaper.

Perhaps it would be a good idea for the manufacturers of military equipment to donate a large chunk of their profits to try to put right some of the damage they're responsible for.

The British Legion is an excellent organisation which does a vast amount of good work for ex-servicemen, so I always buy and wear a poppy.
But I respect the views of anyone who prefers not to.

Oh do buy one my son says it brings great comfort to the families of those who carry the great burden of loss. They deserve it.

I couldn't imagine not having one, for me it just seems like the right thing to do, its a feeling that comes from inside which granted may not be much of a reason for buying one and wearing it.

I'll collect it at the guard house of the British Embassy tomorrow and wear it to Remembrance Day ceremony in the local Christian Graveyard on Sunday. We have over the years had British Serviceman lose their life here in Oman, notably during the Dhofar War years ago, on top of that we are a military family, my husband served his country for 30 years.

Its what I have to do for the simple reason I couldn't not do it.

Sorry if that sounds daft.

JessM - I like the words too and wholly agree with the underlying sentiment; that's why I have two lovely Afghan sons.
FYI, my husband doesn't wear a poppy until the Friday before Remembrance Sunday simply so that his work colleagues don't feel 'obliged' to wear one because of our situation.

I think a lot of what you say is true, gracesmum but in some ways the young NCO's wives have an advantage being able to live amongst friends with whom they have a lot in common. Their children grow up together and often meet up again at future postings. They don't have to live in married quarters and many officers and senior NCOs buy their own houses once their children reach secondary school age.

Young civilian wives who move because of their husband's careers often find themselves cut off from friends and family and are lonely as a result.

Pros and cons I suppose.

The First World War and the question of whether the soldiers were heroes or victims is being discussed on The Moral Maze on Radio 4 in 10 minutes' time.

I apologise for the word "ghetto" if exaggerated the situation merlot but it was the image I got from Gareth Maoine's programme where the army wives were mostly wives of NCO's, very young, didn't seem to have had careers of their own and given the security issue also didn't seem to have a social life outside the base. I may have formed a wrong impression but let's face it, if you imagine a housing estate miles form a town where the men are mainly absent that is a sort of ghetto-like existence . I think I heard a resident of Barnstaple say she know of the army base but had never had any contact with it, so I feel the wives/partners are thrown very much on to each other for company, their own parents may be miles away and their friends are largely fdrawn from other army wives. While it is great to have a lot in common - sometimes it culd be too much . I alos understand that army housing is often of poor quality these days and that is unforgivable as I can't imagine there is an alternative!

What the British Legion does goes far deeper than I realised. Anyone in the Forces can turn to them for help and for a variety of reasons. I feel quite proud to buy my poppy but this year I decided to use a metal poppy and a wristband purchased in previous years, also making a donation. That was fine until I discovered that this year 2013 had been added to it. So much for my attempt at saving the environment.

I finally managed to buy a poppy and wear in recognition of those gallant people who have fought for us .

Yes, I always buy a poppy and wear it - not because I support war but because I support the men and women sent to fight.

I agree more provision should be made for those who come back injured, whether physically or mentally

I always have mixed feelings about this. Like JessM I do think that if governments make he decision that they should go to war in our name, then they should factor in the needs of damaged service people as a matter of course. People injured defending their nation (although I am not always sure that this is the true reason why we are sometimes dragged into wars) should have the right to proper are and support long term.

The other issue is the jingoism that sometimes characterises remembrance day "celebrations." It gives me the creeps to see the "great and the good" making a public show of themselves when it is often these same people who have taken us to war in the first place.

Having said that, I do think it is right that we should remember those who have taken part in wars - when I think of my Dad being called up as a young man to engage in a war that made no sense to him, I feel very sad. He was in the Far East and who knows what horrors he witnessed?

There is always the option to buy a white poppy which signifies a desire to stand up for peace - sometimes I have bought one of each.