Scottish independence

Anyway; lets put politics to one side because I've just been hearing that there has been a terrible accident in Glasgow, and I'm just praying that people haven't been hurt .

Aka; The first paragraph you have written has chilled me to the bone.

It worries me somewhat that some of the reasoning behind the vote for Scottish independence is the hatred of the English. I do hope that my words do not offend anyone which is not my intention I am just beginning to feel a little bit uneasy (and sad) about it. My mum is in hospital at the moment and the lady in the bed opposite is Scottish. I had a very interesting conversation with her last night in which she told me that there were no hospitals in Scotland who were able to treat her very complex condition and thus she was a frequent visitor to Newcastle. She told me that she prays that the Scottish people "see sense" and vote NO for independence. One of the reasons she sited was that both her and her dear son rely on an English hospital to keep them alive and it worried her a great deal as to what would happen to them (and many more people in a similar situation) if and when Scotland became independent.

It's more than just being governed from Westminster. Bitter wars have been fought between England and Scotland in the past and many Scots retain a feeling that Scotland is not a 'free' country but just a satellite of England. Wanting independence comes from the heart not always the head.
Never-the-less Granny23 has put forward some coherent and logical reasons why an independant Scotland is more viable than I'd previously thought.

But if you're not happy with a government do something about it, not just walk away. Someone said on the radio today what if Scotland turns into this wonderful Utopia;surely everyone is going to want to move there, then what will happen? What will be the policy on immigration etc?

My own opinion is that the issue of nationalism and a wish for independence occurs when there is too much emphasis placed on, and money going into, one particular area of a country.

I'm a Londoner but my feeling is that the UK has relied far too much on the City of London and its corrupt financial institutions, rather than on creating meaningful and useful products and jobs.

I really hope that Scotland does not go for independence but I can see why they are concerned that they might be stuck with a right wing, backward looking government even if the vast majority of the Scots vote for something different.

I'm with Einstein (it doesn't matter if he didn't actually say it) on nationalism:
"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."

This is funny too, and probably pretty close to the truth in my part of Scotland

We had a French member of our bookclub whose family were originally from eastern France, the Alsace-Lorraine region. She said that during WW2, cousins were fighting cousins.

Are we really so very different in these small isles that we need to have separate countries?

Granny23 and Agus I'm just wondering, without ill intent, if we had real proportional representation (PR) in this country would you still be so keen to support independence for Scotland?

Surely the Scots and the rest of the UK are not so very different from each other.

There are many parts of this country that feel alienated.

I think that there are so many awful things happening in the world, with which we might help, that whether the Scots go it alone or not is really of little importance. Self serving politicians do not impress me, nor does fervid nationalism.

I think Tegan addresses a potential problem.

My dear Theseus is a Scot, as many of you know, but that is where my interest in Scotland lies, and there alone.

I thnk that, if the vote goes against Scottish Independence the subject isn't going to go away and nationalism will rear it's head. That's my fear . For that reason I want it to go ahead [but feel incredibly sad about it ].

I have heard French who don't like the Germans, English who don't like the French,Canadians who don't like the Americans etc. etc. There will always be people like this to be found in every country. The awful comments I have heard like this, I think is through ignorance and I tend to ignore them.

It is Sansom not me that makes the links to the Nazis. Worth a read is all I am saying.
Re Basque nationalism I don't see there is anything to get offended about any more than if I had drawn parallels with the Irish wanting to be independent of Britain. What I am saying is that nationalism of this case often leads to some degree of terrorism in both these cases. This cannot be denied. So please don't tell me off agus or take offence granny23.
I would like an answer, if anyone has one, about the benefits of nationalism as such because there seem to be a number of down sides to it if you look around. Am struggling to see the upsides. I am Welsh, so perfectly understand the slights and pro-S-of-England bias. But the corollary is not necessarily that it is a good idea to split up our small and vulnerable nation into even smaller and vulnerable nations.
Oh and going back to the subjects of the vast cost of separation - - the cost of applying to be a member of the EU if Scotland left. And the cost of maintaining its own set of embassies around the world...

I was born in England and now live in Scotland, I have a friend in her middle 70s, even though her husband is English, she is so anti England its quite scary, If Alex Salmon asked her to take up arms and man the borders to keep the English out she would. She was brought up to hate the English because "they stole our country" her words.

Thistledoo I too am English, living in Scotland since 1981 and feel the same as you. My 'Scottish' children have already moved away for various reasons and if the vote is YES, I probably will too - it will certainly help me to make a decision I have been struggling with for some time since being widowed. I personally know less than a handful of people who will vote Yes but of those, 3 are exceedingly aggressive in their argument, are unable to stand back and appreciate that not everyone has the same opinion as they do and one even refused to use a Union Jack serviette and took it as an affront that it was offered to them (completely innocently I have to add). My hairdresser, a born and bred Scot frae Fife, told me yesterday that he would be devastated if there were to be a Yes vote. He told me that first and foremost he considered himself to be British and secondly a Scot. It makes me very sad to witness the devisiveness and almost hatred which this campaign causes between friends and neighbours

gillybob it has nothing to do with not liking other nationalities, that is not the case at all. Those voting for independence would rather be governed by a Scottish Government rather than Westminster. It's all down to politics not a personal dislike of what the media are peddling that the Scots don't like the English. If that were the case, I would not have many dear friends and family scattered throughout England some of who live in Ponteland.

I am half English half Welsh, married a Scotsman and have lived in Scotland for the past 45 years. I have worked in the NHS for most of my working life and now retired. My children were born and raised here and consider themselves to be Scottish. BUT I am sad indeed that our first minister has spent his valuable time and our money on this independent campaign, when he could have done so much more.
Most of our friends and people we speak to all agree that the Union should remain and that to go it alone would be financial suicide. We are but 5 million souls here north of the border. How on earth will we be able to fund all our services, the figures don't add up.
Even with a no vote, the seed is set, and the yes campaigners will try again. I have witnessed quite aggressive demonstrations among the yes voters. One in particular at a charity 10k road quite recently, when there was a small band of people waving the Scottish flag with a big yes across it, and chanting for Independence, and getting rid of the Westminster shackles. I found it threatening and for the first time in my married life felt that I didn't belong here. Both my husband (who is Scottish) and our children feel that we will probably emigrate to England or Wales.
I wish to remain BRITISH and so do many here.

I'll try to explain on Sunday

Forgive me for asking such a simple (almost naive) question but what I can't understand is Why?

As previously mentioned we are a very small island and as a Northerner (Geordie) I feel more in touch with Scotland than I do with the South of England. Obviously the feeling isnt mutual .

Something very fishy newist

One small point about Her Maj. I have a poster showing her pedigree on the back of our loo door. She is definitely as Scotish as she is English and Welsh. Can't see any Irish blood though!

granny

Thanks for your courteous reply.

On a light hearted note, There is a Salmon and a Sturgeon wanting Independence, or Freedom?

One final point before I must go and do something else.

The independence campaign is not the sole preserve of Alex Salmond. The official spokesperson on Independence for the Scottish Government is, in fact, Nicola Sturgeon (who I, personally, hope will become the first First Minister of the Independent Scottish Parliament.) Various parties and strands of opinion form the YES campaign. The SNP, the Greens and the SSP are all affiliated along with groupings such as Labour for Independence, Football fans for independence, Wings over Scotland, the Constitutional Convention, Christians for Independence, Women for Independence, as well as many non aligned individuals, a few Tories and Liberals and independent politicians such as Margo McDonald, MSP and the Yes campaign's chair Dennis Canavan. The YES campaign is headed by non-party Blair Jenkins, an eloquent and inspirational spokesperson.

The campaign has been on-going with various peaks and troughs since the early years of the last Century. I have been an activist for over 50 years now and an SNP member, campaigning and helping to make policy for much longer than Alex Salmond. I can still remember, vividly, Nicola's electrifying first speech to conference when she was a shy 16 year old. I turned to my fellow branch delegate and said 'Mark my words - that wee lassie will one day lead this party'........

Pogs Sorry, I didn't see your post earlier. I remain convinced that Scotland would remain in the EU after Independence. This is not because I believe everything that AS tells me. I have reached this conclusion because I cannot think of a reason why the EU would want to eject one of the richest countries in the EU, with good stocks of oil, gas and fish - all valuable commodities. A country whose population consistently votes in favour of remaining in the EU in opinion polls, a country that is unlikely to need bailed out in the foreseeable future. As for the statement from the Spanish PM, who is currently facing allegations of fraud and is desperate to thwart the Catalan nationalists, we can surely take his opinions with a large pinch of sea-salt. He is already facing outrage from the Spanish fishermen whose livelihoods are dependent on the access to Scottish fishing grounds granted to them under EU regulations.

Having said that - No, it would not be a dealbreaker for me (as a pro-European) if it should be the case that Indie Scotland would have to re-apply. If we vote No and remain in the UK we have no guarantees that we will be in or out in five years time anyway.