Scottish independence

The Labour Party will loose some 40 MP's that sit for Scottish constituencies. It will make it much harder for them to win general elections.

Don't know! maybe we should have a referendum on that?the results may be interesting.

Trying to decide, should Scotland float off, what should appear on the Rump of the UK flag (ROTUK) thereafter. Roses, roast beef, daffs, leeks, oranges and Bushmills, perhaps, together with a dash of curry, fish and chips. What do you think?

'Oh I will walk 500 miles!'......... ok then, off you go, but watch out, us English may steal your boots!

I understand that the 1707 Act of Union was a voluntary arrangement between sovereign nations, so I fail to understand why a petition to dissolve it is not to be decided by all voters in all the constituent countries of the Union. Cherry-picking by sectional interests is not good enough. I also understand that Scotland was bankrupt at the time of the Act of Union, following foolish and failed attempts at empire building, leaving old England to bail Scotland out and pay for their porridge.

That should all be taken into account in the great settling of scores next year, and whilst I have no personal desire to suppress anybody, neither do I feel obliged to underwrite somebody else's nationalistic profligacy, past or present. So if Scotland should decide to go solo, then so be it, the UK will then have to be ripped apart and all things Scottish sent back over the border. However, one thing which won't be bag-piped up north will be the pound sterling, and I rather suspect that whatever the nature of the various new flags, control will still be exercised by the English in England, with a welcome bit of Irish and Welsh help. Time, I think, for the old British lion to wake up and start roaring again!

I will be very surprised if the Scots voters vote for independence.I also think that Alex Salmond never wanted a yes/no vote and must be secretly aghast!
We should stay united, we are only a small island anyway. The Scots do very well at the moment, what with no student fees and other goodies. The younger generation may vote for it because they are more radical. However, if it does happen they will have to paddle their own canoe for the future, and good luck with that.I don't feel 'hurt' like some do, as I know from holidays in both Wales and Scotland that there is a big anti-English lobby out there, anyway, it's a long way to travel now, so holiday in England.Not saying everyone is like this to all you Scots Gnetters, but, oh yes, it's there all right.

My Scottish friend and her family are all for independence, but I still feel that on the day, standing in the ballot box, there will be lot whose courage will fail them and won't vote for independence after all.

Reading these last posts and the interesting points they raise, I am sure that there will be lot of lucrative work for the lawyers specialising in International Law. It maybe that belonging to the EU would mean taking the Euro as I can't imagine it working any other way.

Just had an interesting email from a young nephew living and studying in Scotland. He states that many of the older generation want to stay in the union but among his generation there is more a feeling they want to go for independence. This was just part of a much longer email, but the rest made it obvious he was aware of much already put forward by Granny23.
I'd never considered a generational divide before and I understand that university students tend to the more radical views of youth, but it's an interesting perspective.

With you thatbags.

I've got to the point where I'm just longing for the indyref to be over, whichever way the vote goes. I'll be voting no.

Yes, but it is the Act of Union which is at issue, not the Union of the Crowns, and so strictly speaking, the UK will still exist as a kingdom while the 2 political entities will be different. This has not happened before in the EU, and so anyone who is dogmatic about what will happen is not necessarily right.

when I think when this was raised before the EU Secretary General (or whatever the he is called) stated that Scotland would have to apply for membership and, like all new members, adopt the EU if accepted. The UK would remain a member because it still would still exist – just minus one of its members. I may not have got this straight and there is probably a different Great Panjandrum in charge now. It's all very confusing.

or point

interesting poing

It's assumed by many, including Spanish politicians, that if Scotland becomes independent then it would be only Scotland which would be expected to apply to rejoin the EU. The rest of the UK would be in exactly the same position. Repealing the Act of Union produces 2 different entities; Scotland and England/Wales/Northern Ireland. (This is different from what would happen if Catalonia becomes independent by leaving Spain.) It seems very unlikely that 60 million Europeans would suddenly become non-members. Spain obviously has a considerable axe to grind on this one.

What worries me is that if there is a No vote, we might end up being taken out of Europe by a UK referendum dominated by the South of England whether we want to leave or not (in my case, definitely not).

Granny 23, you are very good at explaining what this is all about. Keep it up!

You're right - and I did switch over. I just wondered why it was being broadcast here. Galen I don't think I've met a Scottish visitor. The ones who come usually stay!

Nobody has to watch anything they don't want to watch, Nfk. We do have a great multiplicity of channels!

In case the few scots who might vote for it are away in Norfolk! They wouldn't want to miss it!
Would they?

Why are we, in darkest Norfolk, having to watch a party political broadcast for Scottish Independence?

Reading over the last few posts I'm so glad I live in the wilds of Norfolk!

What a muddle. How on earth can anyone make a reasoned decision if nothing is going to be decided until after the referendum?

Oops missed out the "and" between yet and money.
Just shows how fed up I am with it all.

As a Scot, I am fed up with all this and we have months to go yet. The money that is being spent on it all.
We are a small island and should stick together.
I have a wide circle of friends and I don't know anyone who is going to vote for an independent Scotland.

What guarantee would Alex Salmond have that the Nats would have power in an independent Scotland? Independence would take take away their raison d'etre. Although there would be a system of proportional representation, it's possible that Labour would take control, and there could even be a resurgence (if there ever was a 'surgence') of the Conservatives. Many people who have voted for the SNP because they supported independence would go back to voting on their old party lines.

My forebears are Scottish and Irish from about a hundred years or so, so I really consider myself a typical British mixture. No Welsh though. Anyway if Scotland wants to be independent let Scotland be independent it's their right. Same for Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Good Luck to them and I really mean that.
One question though that was recently discussed by a group of us. What happens to the Union Jack? Will the blue be removed? It's such an iconic flag and recognised all over the world. No one seems to know the answer.

aka All the Scots need to do now is invent a world religion and rake in the proceeds for 2000 years and all will be well.
Interesting stuff in the news this week about Spain's reaction to Salmond's blithe assumption that he can sail without cost or delay into EU membership, retaining all the UK's conditions.
In Spain not only the Basque region would like to be independent. There are more than a few stirrings in Catalonia as well (the second most affluent area I think). I remember while driving around Spain a few years ago, every time you entered a new region there was graffiti demanding its independence. Some of them have their own languages (Catalonia, Galicia to name 2)
Anyway, no surprise with this background that Spain have made it clear that they would dig in their heels unrelentingly to Scotland joining the EU. There are other countries that might well agree, for similar reasons, such as Belgium. So it seems likely that Scotland will have to apply to join and then will be engaged in a protracted, but ultimately unsuccessful, negotiation that is going to soak up yet more time and energy and distract the Scottish government from running Scottish affairs.
Also a condition of joining might well be joining the euro. If the EU did want to let them in, and Scotland is going to be this newly affluent nation, why would they not demand they join and strengthen the euro?
It does seem to me that Salmond's strongest case is the emotional one but that the logical arguments he is putting forward are based on a long string of "best case scenarios" in terms of economics.
Does anyone other than him think is he really going to come out of all these negotiations (with London and Brussels) with everything (or anything) he hopes for. Of course he isn't . Why would he? What power and leverage would he have in these negotiations against the UK government, the bank of England and many, many other powerful institutions. Why would they want to be generous and helpful to him?
And who is going to run Scotland's affairs while all these years of parallel and protracted negotiations take place?