Are you ready to welcome the apparent flood of bulgarians and romanians....

Was that a "joke" jingle or were you just being insulting? I did notice the grin but wasn't clear what it was supposed to mean in the context. Certainly there are Gransnetters who are not as intelligent as David Cameron or Ed Milliband, but a great deal cleverer, as well as much more widely experienced in matters outside the Westminster village.

I have to say that I note the posts who are seemingly either against debating the immigration numbers or feel there is no problem are using either historical references to past immigrant connections or using the same old you must be an ignoramus if you believe the Daily Mail rhetoric. Others relate tales of nice, kind immigrants they know.

What does any of that have to do with the problem of 'immigration numbers' and here and now in 2014??

I too have friends and family that are not UK born and bred and I am glad they have a sensible outlook and comprehend the many issues we are facing, both here and now. Yes, my good friend since his arrival is a Ugandan Asian. All I will say to you Iam64 is he agrees immigration is a problem. Is he racist, not b----y likely. Is he a realist, you batch ya. That's why he is my friend.

Am I the only poster who has immigrant friends who consider themselves fortunate to have been given a chance for a good life in the UK but also see the huge problems we are all facing.

It's depressing that the Daily Mail doesn't seem able to differentiate between Roma and Romanians. It may not make much difference to the situation in Park Lane but one would like to feel that they could get basic facts right.
According to the reports I have read many Romanians are being put off coming here because they are being confused with the Roma.

Iam64 your plan B sounds good in theory but how long would it take to help people who don't have enough to feed their children this week, or who are in sub-standard housing or those children who are in failing schools and coming up to their GCSEs this year?

My point being that we need solutions now not at some inderminate point in the future.

One thing we could usefully do is stop more and more people coming into the country unless we know they have jobs to come to and are able to support and house themselves.

Other countries do it. Friends of mine couldn't get into Australia some years ago when they were considering emigrating.

You are none of you as clever or intelligent as David Cameron. Or Ed Milliband. You would cock it up for us all.

Oh yes. No need to put any money into anti-terrorism. Never mind if we have another 7/7. Just let the would be bombers flourish.

Yes a bit of evidence behind policies would be nice, but it seems politics and evidence don't mix well

Sounds rather fanciful to me !!

Yes, my plan B would involve research based public policies, rather than ideologically driven assaults on existing services.

EM , not sure !

Fighting no more expensive wars and putting the money saved into helping the unfortunate suffering people of this world is an excellent idea. Who could disagree?

However, whilst we are waiting for Utopia is there a plan B?

That is a fair point , and possibly one to agree with !

I'd favour using the money we have differently Nonu - for example no more ridiculous wars, that cause nothing but heart ache for all involved.

iam64 btw .

So you are advocating tax rises to fund this or these , good one !
Well done !

Can I add to my post of 02.01.14 18.58.
Petallus, having re-read your post, I want to add that I agree with you, about all the children in a class room where English isn't the first language for a large number, where the newcomers are often suffering the effects of fleeing war zones and where many of the indigenous children's parents have mental health, drug, alcohol problems can't be under estimated. So, my sympathies don't only go to the children struggling in such classes, they go to the teacher as well, trying to meet the educational, social and emotional needs of such a diverse group.
All our public services are bending under increasing demands. We need to support, and fund them properly, not blame immigration for every thing we feel to be 'wrong'. When demands and expectations increase, at the same time as resources are slashed, all manner of problems become inevitable.

The Roma have been in Park Lane for a number of years now, nothing to do with the lifting of restrictions yesterday, and the authorities for some inexplicable reason have failed to deal with it effectively.

It's this sort of madness that makes people fearful of genuine job-seeking immigrants.

Not everything in the DM is untrue scaremongering as some people seem to think.

Makes depressing and worrying reading but i'm not surprised.

Was that all it was?!!! The remark about Micelf' s name!!! Unbelievable. And ridiculous.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532613/Beggars-sleeping-rough-Marble-Arch-arrested-UK-Border-police-just-day-British-immigration-laws-relaxed.html

But surely it can't be true it's not in The Guardian!

GA - yes, a great post, thank you.
Petallus - I'm sorry if my post did't make clear that in addition to working in, we also live in an area of high immigration, low employment and difficult housing conditions. This is where our children, grandchildren, and members of our extended family live. We have 18 and 20 year old grand children, struggling to find work. The bedroom tax is hitting their separated parents hard. Our town has assimilated refugees and economic migrants since it was built and so far we've been lucky, no race riots or major problems, despite attempts by the EDL to cause problems recently.
Life is tough for so many people, and of course we need to debate the impact of government policies, including on immigration. Let's try and do it in an informed, and compassionate way.
Granjura, I have close friends who arrived in Leicester from Uganda. Hard working, kind folk who wouldn't have chosen to leave Uganda, but once they had to, made the best of it, and have produced doctors, pharmacists, teachers, bankers etc in the next generation.

And the BBC.

it's not just the Daily Mail. It's the Telegraph and The Guardian as well.

I am not demonising my fellow human beings because I am concerned about how many Bulgarians and Romanians may come to our country this time, given that the estimated figure before was 13,000 and this figure was exceeded by over a million. Far from demonising the prospective new wave of immigrants, I concede that like before many will have talents and a work ethic that will exceed some of the most under privileged section of our younger generation which sadly is an indictment of our below average education system. We have many social problems, I think we should put more effort in sorting those out rather than import a workforce who will do the jobs that we are so frequently told that our young can't or wont do. I don't know how a large section of the younger generation, educated or otherwise will ever become upwardly mobile if they aren't going to get a fair crack of the whip in the employment stakes. I just see a depressing life ahead for them which wont be good for the whole of society.

MiceElf whilst I concede that my post may have been juvenile in making a personal remark about your pseudonym for which I apologise, I nevertheless find your "oh dear have you thought this through" remark patronising. I don't wish to be spoken to as if I am in the classroom I left school a long time ago.

Nice post grannyactivist
I find the example of Ireland interesting. A few years ago their economy was booming. There was a huge shortage of labour and people flooded in from countries like Poland and Lithuania. If you walked along a street you would hear their languages being spoken all around you. Then the economy crashed and many of them left, along with a lot of young Irish people. It is now a more diverse nation than it was 15 years ago, and the better for it in many respects. In today's Europe people (mostly young ones) will take their skills and labour where the work is.
I find it interesting that there was no influx of young people from the north of England to fill these Irish jobs.