Sex cases in the news

Oh felice how brave of you to write it now. I am moved to tears by that dreadful abuse that you have suffered and are still affected by.
(((Hugs))) to you.

I was raped and seriously physically abused by my first husband in 1972/3/4, we were with the military and i told many army doctors, X broke my wrist in a door because the butter was cold on the toast. No one paid any attention, until I saw an RAF doctor in Cyprus who immediately hospitalised me due to severe internal injuries. I had a 2 year old at the time.
We went back to the Uk where i was able to escape from X. When my Mother asked why I was leaving him I told her, she said 'DO NOT BE SILLY, AND i DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ANYTHING UNPLEASANT ABOUT THAT KIND OF THING. WHAT DID YOU DO TO MAKE HIM WANT TO DO THAT.
It has coloured my life from then to now, I was 18, I told a so called close friend 10 years ago and she laughed, and said it couldn't have been that bad!!!!!!
First time i have written it down, I told male partners as some time sex is very painful for me and most of them, not all have just ignored it. my SO and last husband understood. but it has not been easy.
X used a coca-cola bottle and left me with internal scarring, on a lighter note try explaining that to the obstetrician.
we are here talking about young girls, and at first i too thought oh yea, money or fame, but after hearing more i think i have a lot more sympathy with the women.

JessM All of us have always made it very clear that any kind of coercive sexual contact should be prosecuted, no matter how long ago it was. We are talking only about the casual groping which, as so many of us who remember know, was prevalent in the 1960s and 70s. And yes, many men back then could see no problem with a bit of mild groping, the last thing that occurred to them was to think about whether it was moral or acceptable, they just did it. Not all by a long way, but sufficient for it to be an irritant.

If any of those men who groped me, ever appeared in court or had their names in the paper, I would not be rushing to the police to add my name to the list of complaints. It was irritating when it occurred, but that is as far as it went. I wasn't intimidated by it. I found being paid less than a male colleague far more irritating and being asked if I took shorthand or could do a another manager's photocopying even more so.

Statutory rape was quite common though when I was young.

Of course rape was not part of the daily routine. What a silly idea. Who said that?

My point Riverwalk is that over the years more and more woman have risked their jobs, even their reputations, to speak out. The woman in the DLT case was not some poor little, downtrodden office junior. She was DJing on the radio at the BBC as I understand it. She wasn't prepared to speak out then, but now that other, braver, women have over the years paved the way, as it were, she's jumped on their bandwagon.

Well, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem in my book.

I don't think there should be prosecutions for groping of grown women done years ago. How can they possibly judge the climate in that particular situation? And by now such a fairly mild sexual assault should be out of time. Rape or real sexual assault is a different thing.

Hopefully the judges will use common sense to sort it all out.

What about rape then, was that all part of the daily routine? And if it happened 30 years ago should not result in a prosecution. Because rape is what is being talked about in some of these trials isn't it?
Where do you draw the line on stuff that was done in the past? Men did not really think it was morally acceptable to grope colleagues and young girls did they? They thought they could get away with it. And many of them still do. Bringing cases like this helps to send out the message it is not ok, it is a abuse of power and it is not legal, and you may get prosecuted

I agree with Mishap and Flickety. It was a different time and we've come a very long way in the last 40/50 years. Back then learning to deal with and avoid the groping hands of various men in the office was just part of learning to live in the adult world of work.

I wonder how long it will be before the police start on some of the pop groups.

About twenty five years ago I was part of a multidisciplinary team working with a sex offender before his discharge from prison. After discharge he re-offended quickly and seriously and received a long sentence in a regional secure unit. Some years later a similar situation arose with a pedophile, we were given a choice but in the end it didn't happen.

At that time there were few opportunities for treatment in the UK, and I have no knowledge of the current situation. However, in the same way that there is a difference between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic, I believe that there is also a difference between a man who sexually offends because the culture or circumstances allow him to do so, and someone who actually has an illness and needs treatment.

From time to time I have read articles about attempts to rehabilitate offenders, from chemical castration in other countries to help being given by the Quakers in this one. It's such a vast problem that I do hope the government is funding a lot of serious research.

I think that the publicity given to these case has value because the issues have not gone away. There are still men who abuse positions of power to sexually assault, harass or intimidate women. Easy to forget when you are a confident middle aged woman who is not in the target zone for this kind of thing very often. Everydaysexism link is very revealing in terms of what young women experience. Lads mags and the culture that goes with them has probably made things worse in some respects than when we were in teens and twenties e.g. would men ever have dreamed of saying "show us your tits" to a girl or young woman in a disco back then?

Lots of examples of groping, vile comments and harrasment among the contributions.

And still it goes on.

Take a look at this

everydaysexism.com/

But not everyone is as assertive as you obviously were AKA.

Many of these girls were in very junior positions and feared speaking out; even Flickety who as a manager was an equal seemed to have not been able to confront the offender.

Poor Penquin spoke out and lost her job!

Gosh notgrandma did you never indulge in risky behaviour when you were 14 or 15? I did on many occasions despite having a hugely protective mother. Just because I had to be home by 10 pm did not mean that I did not put myself in many situations in which I could easily have been assaulted. Teenagers are not at all good at risk assessment, that is clearly scientifically raven, which is why there are laws to protect them.

Agree Rickgran.
Disagree Absent.
Yes, rape is about power, but I think these 'groping' of grown women are purely sexual. Some of these 'victims' of the latter are pathetic. If I was 'groped' in this way, as I bet many of us were when younger, I reacted quite violently and would slap the persons face.

Thought your post spot on, absent.

I have mixed views on this - I too remember dealing with unwanted attention in a matter of fact way and don't recall it being real problem. We knew not to put ourselves in vulnerable situations and took responsibility for our own safety.
I suppose after all this has died down and we move on there will be a shift in the way men treat women. Some of it will be good - women will feel safer,etc., but something will be lost. The vast majority of men who have always been respectful of women will be on their guard and less willing to offer genuine help and affection in case it is misconstrued - in the same way that we all now think twice about about assisting a lost child or chatting to a toddler.

Neither rape not severe sexual groping are "sex" crimes; they are entirely to do with power. That is why there is such anger about people in positions of responsibility, authority or held in awe, whether teachers or priests, DJs or pop stars, senior managers or your parents' friend. That is why victims of these crimes are ashamed and embarrassed and still often don't feel able to seek help or even tell anyone about it. Someone earlier mentioned domestic abuse. It is similar – all to do with power and the victim feels embarrassed and ashamed. There should be no hiding place, however long ago the event took place.

Even now in the 21st century, it is a brave person who comes forward and reports what happened – whether 40 years ago or last week. Even with all the new rules and training, it is a painful, sometimes agonising process for women or men, girls or boys.

In the mid 70's I was the only woman working in an office dept of ten men. I was a seventeen year old who loved fashion, clothes and had just started reading Cosmopolitan. It was my bible. The men in the office were mostly middle aged and above. I was not the least bit interested in any of them. From day one I was constantly having to avoid anyone kissing me, trying to grope my breasts, my bottom. I made it quite clear I was not happy by squirming away, batting off hands as much as I could. At seventeen I felt unable to tell them to clear off in the manner I would use today but I made it plain I found it very unpleasant, in fact repulsive. After a couple of months of being self educated by Cosmopolitan magazine and then other feminist writing I plucked up courage and went to complain to the Big Boss.
He listened and his middle aged secretary, a woman I had opened my heart too was taking notes. At one point I was getting tearful and turned to her and said 'but you know what it's like.' She looked blank and said she didn't. Which was a surprise as she had also been 'cuddled' not groped, grasped, fumbled as I had partly because her mild mannered husband worked in the next building. My boss apparently got a dressing down but I was advised to leave. I did.

I remember, as a young chap, being at work at London Airport in the early 60's when the Beatles came on. The memory of the thousands of hysterical girls who had come to the airport to see them, the powerful nature of their collective presence, and their odd, high-pitched screaming was unforgetable and a bit frightening. Girls would, indeed, fling themselves on the pop-stars of the day and anybody else associated with the newly-emerging pop and media industries. It was often a saturnalian free-for-all.

I don't condone the more liberated dress-codes and standards of public and private behaviour of the time, but they certainly contributed to and encouraged an expectation of mutual participation and indulgence in many areas of life. However, if men (or women, for that matter) old enough to know better were deliberately preying on vulnerable youngsters, willing or not, and a modern-day court of law can be satisfied as to their guilt, then they should pay the full price of the law for their crimes, no matter how old they are. My concern is as regards the quality of evidence necessary to satisfy the court today of their guilt. Surely noboby wants to see a witch-hunt or unjust clamour for compensation.

when surely we are talking about illegal, not immoral, sexual activity.

Yes, some men might take care to ensure that a girl was old enough to give consent before groping or agreeing to have sex but many would not, especially in contexts such as a party or a night out in a pub, or young women coming to their dressing rooms after a gig.

This was especially the case forty years or so ago when 15 year olds were considered to be old enough to know what they were doing by society in general.

Also, a large age gap between the two people concerned is not illegal so long as they are both over 16 and one is not in a position of power over the other (teacher or whatever).

Another aspect, which was reported in this week's Sunday Times, is the knock-on increase in charges of sexual impropriety brought against teachers in public schools. Sometimes known to those in charge but not reported.
In many cases there will be damages awarded (or large fines to be paid) which might lead to the closure of some prep schools.

Whenim your posts are so informative. Your extensive experience really puts it all into context.

I suspect that most of us on here have been the recipient of groping, comments and sadly, on occasion, and for some, much worse. Minimising the experience and exonerating the offenders helps no one.

I don't agree with your generalisation that sexual 'groping' is being treated as as heinous a crime as more serious assaults, Flickety. If there is one such incident, it's likely to result in no action, a caution (if accepted) or acquittal on grounds of insufficient evidence if it goes to trial. When there are multiple assaults on different women, and victims come forward bringing accounts of distress and panic suffered during such incidents, the CPS are more confident about prosecution. Some celebs have had charges dropped because of insufficient evidence.

Petallus an argument that many sex offenders use is that of not knowing the age of their victim without having sight of their birth certificate. In many cases, it's a nonsense argument because the offender is that many years older than the child, that one would question what they could possibly have in common with such a large age gap, whether the child is 15 or 16. With DJs and pop stars, by the time they get famous enough to have 'groupies' there would still be a significant age difference, compounded by the fact that not knowing someone for long enough to know their age, whether they go to school, how old their friends are, how old do they look/sound, are they sexually precocious/vulnerable/in need of guidance, do they live at home etc. would give the responsible man in the street enough concerns to back off till he knows more, not permission to exploit an opportunity.

The rationalisations that sex offenders use for their offending don't stand up when they're challenged.