In praise of Iain Duncan Smith's Welfare Reforms

No, not just you, rosequartz If Ivanhoe put his views across as calmly and eloquently, I'm sure we'd all be more inclined to take him seriously.

I am still puzzled! I cannot equate the somewhat ranting posts on GN with this pleasant sounding man who comes across with a fairly reasonable message on Youtube. Or is it just me?

POGS, a very well-thought out post and very clear.

(I did not mean to speak for you earlier ),

For any of you who are wondering if Ivanhoe is real, here he is
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywYPBSZc16I

Are you not an independent candidate for somewhere, Ivanhoe?

Should read 'I'm sure many of us....'

Ivanhoe you are still living in the 19th century.

mcem is sure many of us, no matter what our political persuasion, do give thought to the various policies being put forward and vote with our heads.

What I cannot get over are those who will always just vote for the same party, come what may. No one party is ever completely in the 'right' or 'wrong' so it comes down to which policies you can live with at any one point in time. Or indeed if any of them are worth a vote.

Pogs I won't follow your lead and vote Tory, but I congratulate on a post that shows thought and reason and not knee-jerk reaction and blind rhetoric. I think we can agree to disagree with neither of us feeling browbeaten.

Yes, Ivanhoe, who would you suggest we vote for, as you seem to despise the Tories and New Labour equally? Surely not the LibDems!

Because Labour are continually showing me they have a mind set that belongs to the past.

I detest class warfare and that is endemic with practically every policy or comment Labour make.

I don't like the Unions gaining the upper hand once more.

I hate hypocrisy and Labour have the edge on that score.

I think the Labour Ministers are appalling at understanding how finances and business operate.

If Miliband does bring back more socialism it will be a retrograde step for the country.

I think Labour will tax and spend and I think that is wrong.
.....................
I think the Tories are have better business acumen.

I think the Tories are not so hung up on class divide.

In my region there is a lot of good, sound business developments being started with government funding.

Manufacturing is starting to look up.

I just see a more intelligent outlook for the future under the Tories.

I might change my mind before the election but that's what I think thus far.

I think she has explained that already, Ivanhoe.

Do tell us who you are voting for, Ivanhoe, I am still puzzled!

POGS, I am well aware that the Labour party now is right wing, no doubt about it, Ed M. is courting the middle class vote, just like Blair did.

Tell me why you are voting right wing Tory in 2015 ?

But you say there has been no Labour Party for 30 years, I think that's what you said in another post?

I think you are wrong in thinking only Labour stand up for the poor, the old, the disabled, the vulnerable. That comment may have been true moons ago but this is a different era.

What do you think when you hear Labour say 'They are going to be tougher on Welfare' than the Tories? That's been said by Balls, Miliband, Umuna and Rachael Reeves.

What do you think when Andy Burnham and Balls said Labour would not do as the Tories have done and Ring Fence NHS spending.

What do you think about employment being higher under Labour.

My father was happy with his 15 minute 'slots' mixed in with 2 1 hour 'slots' of home visit's. They were not started under the Tories Labour were in office.

I am trying to say Ivanhoe that sometimes the rhetoric that comes from ANY political party is nothing more than fluff and air. I, believe it or not, did vote Labour once. I then voted Tory and went back to Labour under Blair. I am now voting Tory again.

I am not a sadistic b-----d as some GN's think because that's how I vote. I watch, listen and make a decision on who I think is best for the 'country' at any one given time. I am not of a mind set that I vote out of hatred, loathing or fear.

Elegran, The Labour party was founded to sticks up for the exploited masses of working class people. What's your problem with that ?

But while standing up for them, they also need to act in the outside world, and see the wider picture in which everyone is living, as well as the poor, the weak, the old, the ill, the disabled, the vulnerable.

If they don't, they could spend more on them those who are not all these things can contribute to the national piggy bank. The result of that could be that they ADD to the numbers of the poor and those who cannot find work or maintain themselves.

POGS, Labour isnt Labour unless it standing up for the poor, the weak, the old, the ill, the disabled, the vulnerable, and this could be anyone of us at any time.

Agreed. Labour is no longer about the "working man". In that, it has, in a way, come of age from the idealism with which it started. What happens to the "working man" depends so much on what happens to the firm he works for, or the people who use his services directly, if he is a one-man business or part of a small business. So much is just out of the hands of legislation and exposed to market forces.

So many companies are now multi-national, with shareholders who look to the interest from their shares to top up their own income. In that they are not automatically to be thought of as fat cats as there are vast numbers of pwople with their modest savings in shares, either independently or as part of a savings scheme. There is no going back on that, the genie is out of the bottle and these companies will not go away, any more than the way we can travel all round the world and spend our money in different countries will go away.

Politicians who cannot get their heads round international trading and financing cannot do their best for the people they serve. None of the parties today can claim to have statesmen of the quality they once had.

No it doesn't, Labour knew it had to change, hence New Labour.

I've posted on another thread so I can't be bothered at the minute to scribe another reason why I think this way.

Miliband is saying his party is 'bringing back' socialism. Well good luck mate but those of us of a certain age will either be thinking good, or Oh bloody hell, dependant upon our views.

Elegran, Labour needs to go back to its core values to regain its lost supporters.

So what you really want is to get back Ramsay MacDonald, Clem Attlee or Harold Wilson? Sorry to disappoint you, but they are as dead as Margaret Thatcher. You will have to abandon (New) Labour and hope for a Communist revival.

Elegran, Britain hasnt had a "Labour" Government since the 1970's. "New" Labour under Tony Blair 1997-2010 embraced Thatcher's right wing deregulated free market. So New Labour cannot be called "Labour"!

Well said, Ivanhoe. We also need a limit on top pay, instead of fantasy amounts.

waltermitty, The Tory's are using the deficit as a cover to reduce the State and get rid of welfare.

That's it in a nut shell.

Britain has the most under funded welfare State system compared to Europe. We dont need welfare reform, we need council houses, and long term secure jobs with a decent minimum wage.

waltermitty, Well said.