In praise of Iain Duncan Smith's Welfare Reforms

https://blogs.citizensadvice.org.uk/blog/is-a-new-jsa-sanctions-storm-brewing/

Not a newspaper, but a group that I would think most people on here respect, and some even work for?

Just come back after a few days 'off'.

The thing is there are some who think the system requires change and those who think it does not.

There are some who have personal experience and knowledge of some people who claim fraudulently and others who have never seen nor come across such people. That will obviously lead to very differing opinions. The problem is when one group 'calls' or 'abuses' another poster for saying what their experience of the matter is.

There are some who play politics and blame just one government, forgetting that once you do you will be given a response to correct what you say, unless it is a fact. One example would be to call Ian Duncan Smith 'nasty' when Racheal Reeves and Ed Balls have said they will ' be harder on welfare ' than the Coalition. Only the so called bedroom and tax and the 50p tax threshold have been regarded by Labour as U turns they would make.

I repeat I do not do 'blue' as in a post which directs me to a newspaper or report that has been 'contrived' for political spin, whether left or right.

It has no interest to me, it is what the poster 'know's' and 'understands' of the subject that is of interest to me. I read the Daily Mail but I am not so silly as to look upon it as my Bible of knowledge. Likewise I would hope those who choose to read the Guardian take a similar view. I do wonder at times.

It is a complete 'turn off' when a poster has to insult another poster for their choice of reading, surely that shows a lack of maturity and sadly will get a response that challenges that view. Then again, isn't that what is intended by doing it in the first place?

Perhaps Durhamjen you could explain just how the hell you think I am doing the Government's job for them? How, exactly, is pointing out ways that people could get on line an example of "Divide and Rule"?

That's it in a nutshell Petra … those who abuse the system and then there's nothing left in the pot for others.

Perhaps you could let us know what terms would be permissible to describe benefit claimants who know how to work the system and have no intention of working for a living, Penstemmon.

The first mention of 'scroungers' on this thread seems to have been in your post of 17.23 yesterday.

Very well put, Penstemmon. I would say though, it's very difficult not to use the word 'scrounger' when it in your face.

Many years ago I was very supportive and proud of our countries support of refugees. But now, because of the abuse of our 'open border' system, genuine refugees are being sent back to terrible places.

When submitting benefit claims on lie, there's a requirement to provide a contact email address. Usually if a claimant has no computer he/she is unlikely to have email.

I do not think anyone is arguing that those misusing the benefit system are right! The divide is in the perceived attitudes of the opposing sides.

Those who appear to be arguing for a reduced benefit system with more stringent regulations for all claimants (genuine or not) feel those who appear to argue for a more humane systems want to spend money 'willy-nilly' and be lax about misuse. In the other direction those who seem to have a more liberal view feel those who seem want to reduce access to benefits must all be cold hearted.

Of course those beliefs may be true but the two views need not be mutually exclusive, surely? Is it not possible to want to have a supportive benefit system, with clear and fair criteria and not use the emotive language of 'scrounger' etc. If we use terms that are more reasonably descriptive then those who claim honestly and fairly will know they are not part of that group.

Ceesnan, the library in my village is only open three half days a week.
Libraries do not give you internet access for as long as you want.
If you read my post, you will see that my nephew has been on courses every year. He goes on a course for six months and is then told there is no job. He has worked for some big companies, like Rentokil, Smith and Nephew, etc. They all take people on for nothing, then say no job, and take someone else on.
Again, you are doing the government's job for it, divide and rule.
You shoulds be criticising the companies that use young people.
Elegran, I think some people do want to return to those days, unfortunately.
When we left school, or even when we were 38, it was quite possible to hand in your notice and get a new job the next week. That does not happen any more and hasn't for years. Look how long Phoenix took to find a job. Look at what she had to go through.
Some of you on here are all heart.

Not sure why asking people to sign up online before going to the Jobcentre is regarded as being difficult? Most libraries have internet access and failing that most people would have friends with it too. My youngest step-daughter has never worked and knows exactly how to cheat the system. Sadly her two teenage daughters look to be heading down the same road.

When he gets a job, *Ninny, he will presumable be paid enough to afford the busfare.

Walking to another town looking for work is not a new thing. It was common in centuries gone by, and sleeping in barns was part of the "experience". Sometimes those walking would be found dead under a hedge after a cold night with no food or shelter. No-one wants to return to those values - do they?

I have a nephew by marriage who has never worked a full week in his life. He is very comfortable thank you in a council flat with his pregnant girlfriend and seems to manage well on whatever he receives. He seems to have bypassed the education system in this country but has no intention of going to evening classes to learn to read and write. His siblings are not like that, one is studying law.

durhamjen He has to live on £78 per week, and if he does not turn up at the jobcentre on time because he had to walk as he could not afford the busfare, he has his money sanctioned.

He should be sanctioned, surely he can work out how long it takes to walk to the jobcentre and make sure he gets there on time. If he gets a job what is he going to do then turn up when he likes, no wonder he hasn't found a job.

Another way they are making it more difficult, Jess, is by asking people to go online first to sign up before they go to a jobcentre. I think they also have to wait for 4 weeks before they get any benefits. Previously it was one week.

I think you'll find the daughter still living in Brent is 14.

Petra, I do not understand your point. The mother is living in Luton and her daughter is still living in Brent. On a thread about being proud to be British, it was mentioned that if you had lived in Britain for over ten years you should be classed as resident. The 12 year old daughter was possibly born here as she said she had lived in Brent for all or most of her life.
People from Ethiopia are usually asylum seekers. That is allowed.

Did anyone hear the interview on You and Yours today with a woman who had been made redundant from a good job in an local authority (due to government cuts). It was a year on from her first interview, during which she has applied for over 100 jobs and failed to find one. She lives in the North of England where there are few jobs. Now the job centre is treating her punitively e.g. making her travel to another borough to sign on. This is a measure introduced presumably to make life difficult for the minority of claimants. But penalises genuine job seekers who could be spending the time and effort applying for jobs. Recording will be available soon on their website.

Not enough for durhamjen, apparently, Aka!

She has to get the last word in, even though it's rather a lame personal attack.

That's enough.

Do make your mind up, Ana!
Perhaps you have problems counting? That was a joke, by the way, although I agree that I do not find the way this government treats those in poverty very funny

Too many.

durhamjen. You wrote about the mother who had to leave her child in London. You did not mention that the Mother came from Ethyopia 12 yrs ago and had never worked in this country.
You also failed to mention that she was moved back to London.

Oh, do give it a rest, durhamjen. I actually know more than one or two - but perhaps you'd like to provide us with a few more 'links' for our edification.

Thanks, Jane. I asked for numbers before, and Ana now admits she knows one or two people who had no intention of working.
That's not many at all, is it, Ana?
How many do you know, Aka?

Aka

Tongue in cheek.

Ouch, bit it!