In praise of Iain Duncan Smith's Welfare Reforms

And my post was in reply to janeainsworth's!

Note the grinning bunny Rose ...

That was the clue!

Rose I was joking.

I give up!

That was a reply to Aka re the DM!

It was in fact me who described them thus, jane, and I make no apology for it. I have known, personally, one or two people who made no secret of the fact that they had no intention of working and had stock excuses for avoiding appointments, interviews etc.

Strangely, they always had enough spare cash to spend at the local pubs, so perhaps they were making a contribution to the economy in their own way.

Oh come on, I have been reading it since I was 10, but take a lot of it with a huge pinch of sea salt. Also read the Guardian online as well.

Like that joke about the Aussies, I am extremely well-balanced, I probably have a chip on both shoulders.

jane we were instructed to use the phrase 'most of us' .....

I'm truly glad you've never come across any of these (scrounging layabouts) in real life. Can I politely ask if you've come across them on TV programmes perhaps or don't you watch those sorts of programmes?

But Miss, she started it!

GN has been accused of being 'boring' lately. It's the odd scrap that adds a little zest. But honestly to accuse me of reading the DM, that is a step too far

Aka I have nothing to add to this 'debate' but in response to your comment that most of us know some scrounging layabouts, I must state that I don't know, and don't even know of, any scrounging layabouts.
I have not led a completely sheltered life either, and came across many benefit claimants when I was working.
I wouldn't have described any of them as scrounging layabouts.

Well said, rosequartz.

Some of us think IDS is doing a good job, some of us don't.
Can we debate it like grownups?
I am only posting this after two glasses of so I would normally avoid this forum now.

There are faults on all sides - greed and tax evasion on the one side, benefit fraud and scroungers on the other. Both are wrong, both should be put right. Then we will all be better off. Is there anyone in the Government who can tackle this?
I am paying tax on my miniscule pension and would prefer not to.
But if it is for the good of people who need it, I will do so willingly. If it is to line the pockets of those who want it, not need it, then I am not so happy.

And I think food banks are needed but are also a policitical statement.
I do know someone who helps to run one, rather than just what the tv and media tells me about them.

Personally, I see myself as a spinning Jenny

Absolutely ridiculous! I can't believe anyone would have made such a connection. Unless they had reason to, of course.

AKA

Jen I am not calling you that. I said I had no idea it was more than a turn of phrase. Obviously all those who reported the post knew otherwise. I had never made any connection between Jenny and ass until you pointed it out...it simply didn't occur to me.

But I do have to point out that it was you who sad Ana ought to have said 'most of us' wasn't it? I'm now totally confused.

Incidentally I came back when I was informed my post had been deleted. So here I am, with your permission of course

I thought you had gone. You said it had deteriorated, but you think it's okay to come back and call me an ass. My brother used to insult me that way, a Jenny being another name for an ass, so I am inured to the insult.

I am pleased to be delightfully innocent, looking at the alternative.
You are doing it as well, speaking for others. "so do most of us". How do you know? Give us numbers. I know plenty is a meaningless phrase.

'Fond of blaming Gordon Brown for everything'! Everything!?? A lot of my 'Gordon Brown blaming' is tongue in cheek, but you don't really seem to have much of a sense of humour where politics are concerned, durhamjen.

Do stop telling us off. Not everyone agrees with your point of view. Get over it.

Jen I know plenty of these (scrounging layabouts) and so do most of us. But I now realise that if this is the case and you have never come across these (scrounging layabouts) then it explain your delightfully innocent defence of theses (scrounging layabouts)

Sorry, what's offensive about it? I do not understand.
You said yourself that you do not see why we should talk about tax fraud in the same debate as benefit fraud. I am just pointing out why we should.
I notice you are fond of blaming Gordon Brown for everything. Do you think he should not have bailed out the banks after the worldwide financial crisis? Gordon Brown did not give tax cuts to millionaires. He gave more money to people on benefits because he knows they will spend the money in this country, not salt it away in tax havens. This government is making sure that the poor stay poor. Aren't you ashamed of the number of people who have to go to food banks in order to feed their families?

Ha! My post has been deleted. Apparently calling someone a 'piece of work' is an insult similar to calling them an ass. I didn't know this and of course if I had I would never have called Jen an ass.

durhamjen, I'm not even going to bother replying to your rather offensive post.

Yes, of course I agree that the vast majority of benefits claims are genuine and deserved.

I do think, however, that the percentage of fraudulent claims always quoted does not take into account those claimants who know their way round the system and have no intention of working, as Aka said.

It's quite probable that we won't agree on that point, but I'm happy to leave it a that!

Ana, you said "we all know some who are (scrounging layabouts)."
I have just told you that I do not, but now you are still criticising me for saying I do not know anyone who is. At least you have changed it to "most of us" instead of "we all" although not admitting that you have altered your stance.
The problem is that you are blind to the fact that tax fraud is the other end of the spectrum to benefit fraud. If everyone who owed tax paid it, there would be no need for the austerity that we are in. We would also have a better resourced NHS, etc.

Ana I suppose it was because you implied you did not agree with the link jen posted. It made me think that you feel there are more false claimants than I do.

Happy to find more common ground if you do think false /inappropriate claims are fewer than genuine claims we can agree!

'You believe the number of inappropriate payments is larger than I understand it to be.' What have I said which supports that assertion, Penstemmon?

I don't see how comparing tax evasion etc. with fraudulent benefit claims is helpful, but it's a theme trotted out time and time again in discussions such as these.

I'm sure we could all give examples of situations where the benefits system is certainly not working properly, as both you and durhamjen have done, but most of us could also give examples of claimants who are cheating the system, sometimes quite blatantly.