divert foreign aid to flood-hit British families

Progress to be proud of..

Just saying

Because I'm tired of hearing about how awful "the western world" is and how the ills of so much of the rest of the world are "our fault". Some of them, yes, but by no means all, and "the western world" has done and is doing a lot of good in a lot of countries.

Think for a moment about the origins of the world's most famous historical philanthropists.

... thinking about slavery... in Rome and Greece ... not to mention Roman Britain... and about slavery being abolished in "the western world" and a few other places because ideas in "the western world" were more advanced about slavery by then.

Thanks, tricia. I hadn't realised he was from Hull.

I agree with you ThatBags. Wallowing in guilt is not constructive but we should never forget what happened.

Hull - maybe William Wilberforce?

I agree with nelliem and others who say we have a moral duty to help people in less fortunate positions than ourselves. I'm surprised, though, that anyone feels this needs saying. We have a moral duty to help others. Full stop.

However, we don't have a moral duty to carry the guilt of past generations on our shoulders. Our duty is to sort out problems some of which may be the result of wrong or mistaken actions in the past, including but not exclusively, those caused by colonialism.

And I don't think it does any harm to remember that not all colonialism was a bad thing.

What has Hull got to do with it? (just by the way) ??

PS I lived in Hull when I was a child.

djen, slavery existed in Africa before "the western world" got involved. And it was "the western world" that campaigned to abolish slavery. "The western world" is not universally bad is all I'm saying.

Ok! I know we didn't "invent" it. I was referring specifically to the African/Caribbean slave trading in which "we" were cruelly involved up to our necks.

Not to mention the other awful atrocities perpetrated by the Great British Empire.

Western European colonisation has contributed to a lot of exploitation and plunder of their former colonies which has probably not helped their economic woes.

Added to that these poorest countries tend to be in areas of the world worst affected by climate extremes of droughts or floods and hurricanes which have not been conducive to having good economies.

IMO the UK and other such nations do have some moral duty towards assisting these former colonies with aid.

Hi Nellimoser Europeans did not invent slavery. I think you will find that this practice was commonplace in these countries for hundreds of years before the concept was sold to the European. It was considered a legal practice in these countries.
Yes Europeans took on the concept, but eventually realised that it was immoral. Slavery is still rife in these countries.

Joelsnan Slavery started because rich western European nations wanted to use their Caribbean and American colonies to supply them with sugar and cotton etc and needed labour for that purpose.

Britain in particular was heavily involved in this trade.

Yes, the indigenous West Africans exploited this. However there would not have been the demand for locals to capture and exploit the people, probably other local tribes, to sell as slaves if "we" had not created the demand and funded the transport in the first place.

durhamjen don't forget that slavery came about because these poor people were offered for sale by their own.
This process is still rife, the evident chains may not be there, but thousands are still being sold into slavery within that region, often by the same countries who were selling in 18c.

The UKs history of treating its own lower classes at this time was little or no better than those of the African slaves. Transportation to Australia, in the mines, in the mills and on the land, press ganged, however the misery and injustice of these practices is not as well publicised. The only saving grace in this instance is that they weren't sold by their own families, but they were often held in tithe.

If you study colonisation you will note that apart from slavery, there was a lot of movement of 'colonial' people during this period who moved of their own accord to work. There are still large colonies of Indians in the former African colonies, in the West Indies, Indonesia etc. who migrated during this period, these were the economic migrants of the day.

Thatbags, 12 years a slave has just won the bafta for best film. Haven't seen it, but I am from Hull.
Slavery a good thing in Africa? Diamond mining? Coffee?
You read different things to me.

You have demonstrated very well, Joelsnan, the effect of colonialisation.
Strong cultures of social structures of bribery and corruption which prevent the evident wealth being distributed effectively - sounds just like the UK.

Ninny -You you actually said "a lot of Gransnetters" - not some. I agree with absent when she says we can only know the opinions of those who post them and to try to suggest that anybody can speak foir those who remain silent is plain daft absurd.

Since when did agreeing with anybody constitute being "cliquey"? It would be the same as construing any disagreement as "bullying".

Many forms of Government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
Winston Churchill, speech in the House of Commons (November 11, 1947); in Robert Rhodes James, ed., Winston S. Churchill: His Complete Speeches, 1897–1963 (1974), vol. 7, p. 7566.

Also the West is very sure that it's style of democracy is perfect and should be promoted! To develop a democracy it takes a lot of domestic upheaval , civil war and history to be gone through!

Don't forget we are a relatively new democracy... 1929 when women got equal franchise

I think the western world did (and does) a lot of good in places like India and Africa. I don't think it was all bad, nor even bad on balance, though I know there were bad things done and bad consequences of things done. But there were bad things before "the western world" got involved in those places as well.

I'm not in favour of diverting foreign aid back here.

Durhamjen ii am quite interested in history.�� If you research those countries which were UK colonies. I think you may find that relative to the countries around them that we're not part of UK colonisation they are much better off. The infrastructure was well developed, many are better educated. Many have maintained the same systems that were brought by the Brits. Unfortunately there are stronger cultures of social structures, bribery and corruption within some of these countries which prevent the evident wealth being distributed effectively.

Indeed durhamjen!

Joelsnan, you seem to forget about the history of the empire, and all the problems that the western world has caused in less developed countries.
That alone gives our government reason to give foreign aid to them.
I am thinking of countries like India and most of Africa.

Oh joelsnan do not gt me started on that! My grandmother was a Palestinian Arab and the cause of a large amount of the problems in the Arab world is Western interference and colonisation!

Thanks Penstemmon I think that sadly efforts to develop infrastructure have been going on for years, often with little progress. It is cultures and ideologies that have to change and this is something that we, who live within a different paradigm cannot do. See what the West's attempt at democratisation of Arab countries has resulted in.

If any gransnetter wants to sign the petition, he/she can easily do so without having to post here first or, indeed, at all.

We can only know the opinions of those who post them. To suggest that any of us can speak for those who don't post is both absurd and arrogant.