Does it seem unfair to you that David Cameron.....

You need to give China and India a chance.
China had the largest windpower capacity in the world, and India the 5th largest in 2012.
China also says that making turbines etc. for renewable energy will help their economy. I wish this government would say that, instead of saying vote blue get green, then changing its mind.

ninny

Aka that's a first.

elegran

Not if I can help it, Margaret. I always have a backpack and another folding bag stowed in it.

Plastic carriers?! Surely not.

And it is still ten minutes walk from the bus stop. (missed that)

I agree that cars are often used to go to a supermarket five minutes walk away - and to drive to the gym and pay an enormous subscription to get some exercise. Not having one at all has its drawbacks, though.

I have no car and walk or bus everywhere (taxi very occasionally) It is 5 - 8 minutes to a small Sainsbury's or a Co-op. BUT it is then ten minutes uphill home again, carrying my purchases. I limit myself to buying what I really need and carrying it in a backpack.

Or I can catch a bus (from outside Sainsbury's) and be at a large Tesco in another 10 minutes. That tempts me to buy a lot more, so I have even more to carry home.

If I plan ahead, I take a shopping trolley, and fill it up. Have you tried humphing a packed shopping trolley on and off a bus? It is heavy and unwieldy. If I have just the backpack, and it is packed full, it has to be lifted off to sit down, and on again when I get off, without clouting anyone round the head. Several full plastic carriers are even worse, and they cut into the hands and strain the shoulder muscles too.

Last sentence I meant.

At least I can wholeheartedly agree with your last statement ninny

You are dead right jingle we have a Tesco local about 5 minutes walk from where I live. You would not believe how many of my neighbors drive there. It actually would take longer to get in and out of the car and park up! Mind you there are people who would take their cars to the loo if they could!

Mines blue!

Or a silver scooter.

Far too much car driving goes on. Including that done by elderly shoppers. Walk, or get a bike.

We're below sea level but our drainage is expertly managed. Obviously some areas flood and the land alongside rivers (washes) inside the high banks are there to accommodate the flood water. Valuable arable land is rarely affected. It CAN be done.

Yes the rest of the world needs to make changes, but if we all stand around wringing our hands and wait for other people to do something then nothing will change. Almost all of us can consume less, if we try.

Stop overseas aid £12 billion and rising and spend that on flood defences, I bet if you asked people up to their knees in dirty water they would agree.

We have no hope on stopping climate change without China and India on board.

I believe the figure for scientists who believe in climate change is cited at about 97%. That is good enough for me; I would rather give credence to meteorologists, scientists, oceanographers than to Nigel Lawson and his friends.
If 97% of people told you that there was a threat to your house, you would do something about it wouldn't you?
The point is Liz, that not everyone can do everything, but everyone can do something. We are very conscious at the moment that we have to use our car to do any shopping at all, but we grow most of out fruit and veg, drive a low emissions car, limit shopping trips etc
We won't be able to grow our own for ever, but we can pass on what we know to the next generation. I think many of us have skills in cooking, preserving and make do and mend that would benefit younger people.

We would have to persuade the rest of the world to make changes, Mamie, easier said than done. Our efforts are but a drop in the ocean (sorry!)

What exactly are our green taxes being spent on? Does it cost more in resources and energy to build wind turbines, solar panels, eco friendly cars than they will ever save? And are we happy to pay ever more increasing energy prices and importing energy as we cannot produce enough for our ever increasing population who will demand more housing, food and their share of resources?

You forgot one thing Mamie: stop getting older. There are one or two things on your list I could not do!

Well said FlicketyB and jessg. That is what i was afraid was beginning to happen, a 'them and us' attitude. I did not argue with my young friend except to say I did not agree, the Levels are a productive farming area, flooding of the levels could lead to flooding of larger towns in the area and I didn't want to enter into a prolonged debate with her because I am very fond of her. She said she had worked on the Maidenhead Eton Windsor Flood Alleviation Scheme ("where Thames Smooth Waters Glide") which they argued at the time would cause problems further downstream, but it went ahead anyway. What they foresaw would happen did happen.
Some of the Thames Valley is a flood plain which bas been extensively built on- should we not manage these areas because they should not have been developed and may well get worse if the climate changes? Imagine the outcry if that was the decision. And imagine the outcry when food prices go up because more farmland is allowed to go back to nature.
How much money has been spent on wars we have been involved in courtesy of TB, the peacemaker? Surely that will be available to put to much better use defending our land from floods?
I think the jury is still out on whether or not climate change is to blame, as top experts cannot seem to agree at the moment.
I thought the cold snowy winters were just back to normal, but agree these storms are exceptional.

I appreciate what you are saying Mamie but I really don't buy into this whole global warming argument (although I have noticed they don't seem to use that term much these days) Yes I agree our climate is changing as it has probably always changed but I don't think cars and power stations have a lot to do with it. I totally agree with you about building on flood plains and people paving everything in site and can see the outcome of that first hand (my stupid neighbours) . Only a few years ago we were warned to expect drier climates, droughts even. Now we have flooding on a huge scale. The truth is they don't know and will use any excuse in the book to raise taxation.

Perhaps I do agree with you more than I thought I did? and in need of help to understand what to do.

I think the problem is more about people burying their heads in the sand. The weight of scientific evidence for climate change has been so strong for so long, but the media has continued to give a voice to the self-interested clamour of the "sceptics".
The truth is that if anything is to be done, then everyone has to make changes in their lives.
We have to cut the use of fossil fuels, give up gas-guzzling cars, stop building on flood plains, stop putting tarmac on gardens for cars, do what we can in terms of growing our own food, buy local produce, cut energy consumption, reduce mindless consumerism and be prepared to pay more in taxes to fund long-term improvements. We have to reform the CAP, support agriculture and recognise that not all farmers are entirely altruistic and sometimes hard decisions have to be made.
I am fed up with people casting around for people to blame for the crisis when the truth is that we are all to blame. We need a united effort by politicians of all parties and all countries now.
As far as I am concerned the only good thing about all this is that at last (maybe) people might start to take climate change seriously.

I understand fully what you say JessM but am very unhappy with the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude which seems to have arisen. The people who will lose their homes will lose everything and should all be adequately compensated regardless of numbers and areas but this will not happen. Insurance will be impossible to obtain unless people stay with the same companies and then their rates will be exhorbitant. The people in the Somerset levels and other flood plains will be living on a time bomb.

I am afraid this should mean the Government redirecting the money it is spending as I do not believe we are as rich a country as some would have us think. We are heading right back to recession I fear.

The trouble is flicketyb that the Dutch built their dams etc rather a long time ago when labour was cheap - costs of repeating that exercise today would probably be prohibitive (amazing to visit the big dam that keeps the north sea out and see the sea level so much higher than the level on the dry side though! And then the land steps down and down again from that point What an achievement!)
The other factor is that climate change models have been predicting more extreme weather (and doing so for many years). Recently that seems to be happening - the jet stream has started behaving differently. This brought very prolonged snowy cold weather to the south of the UK for 3 consecutive years. So although looking back, this year is a 1 in 100 type event, the jet stream could throw 3 of these at us in the next few years. it is not just us - n america is also having an exceptional winter. This is affecting the whole of the Atlantic.