Should Harriet Harman apologise?

HOW DO YOU KNOW SHE DIDN'T EFFING CONDEMN THEM?

Were you there Hattieh?

Yes, they did. There were demos against PIE speakers at conferences etc and quite a lot of opposition to their activities. I remember the 1970s! Being affiliated to an organisation like NCCL lent them a veneer of respectability and made them look like victims of intolerance. Which they were, I suppose. The question is, how far should one be tolerant and of what? Think of FGM or child marriage. They are widespread, traditional cultural practices. Does that make it OK?

How do you know she did jinglbellsfrocks - was it really necessary to introduce unwelcome language that adds nothing to sensible debate? Don't bother justifying it; I have no wish to trade blows with you.

There were frequent exposés about PIE in the newspapers in the 70s. Mary Whitehouse uncovered a few connections and possible paedophile rings, but she was dismissed because of her moralistic stance.

That's so true Whenim. Mary Whitehouse was quite batty in some ways, but sometimes she spoke sense. Tolerance of deviant views and organisations was very common in the 70s when many of us were challenging repressive attitudes and limitations on free speech (censorship in the theatre for example). The question is always where to draw the line, and those lines were quite blurred at the time. Often, it's only by discussion and debate that one's views can be clarified and modified. I've certainly changed my opinions on a number of matters over the years. That's come about by experience, greater knowledge and reading well argued analyses by others.

Well said, mice. The fact that "the lines were quite blurred at the time" is what some of the better newspaper articles have pointed out too. Focussing on individuals like HH and heaping blame on them is just silly given that they were part of that time and probably just as unclear about the issues as most other people.

Hattiehelga I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. I thought you were shouting at me, but I don't think you were.

Well said jingles - takes a decent person to say that

for jingle

Thanks to Mice and When for telling it like it was. As with all political type movements, boundaries were being pushed and occasionally you found yourself linked with something barmy. I left the local women's group because I was so uncomfortable with what I saw as extremist, insensitive and down right silly views expressed by the most powerful women in the group. I didn't want to be associated with it, and found myself a very good women's group instead. I do wish other from the NCCL had spoken out at this before now. As When says, it was public knowledge at the time, and has been the subject of all kind of speculation on the internet for some years.

I thought Mary Whitehouse made a lot of sense , would not hurt IMO if someone was to speak up these days !
Certainly did not think she was "Batty".

Maybe you didn't Nonu, but I think a lot of people were alienated by her simplistic, moralistic stance on things. A lot of people are speaking up "these days", but as ever, they face the same kind of derogatory response that Mary Whitehouse did.

Heyho , each to their own I say , gotta go , hungry husband to feed !

They were probably exposed in the DM (I do remember a lot of publicity against their beliefs at the time particularly as 2 X DC were very young at the time).
But that wouldn't count would it, because it would have been dismissed as sensationalist dirt-digging.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Evidence Rosequartz?

Sarcasm miceElf
(Lowest form of wit I know)
I do love your name

As I remember, it tended to be headlined in the People and News of the World.

How did I come to miss absolutely everything that was going on in the seventies?! I don't remember any of this at all.

I don't remember either, except Mary Whitehouse's name, but I was quite young at the time.

I think hindsight actually is a wonderful thing to learn from. Understanding often slips into place with hindsight to help it along.

That's the way to do it! www.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/news/uk-politics-26376028

Absolutely! Although she's had plenty of time to prepare it, she can't have been 'away' beyond the reach of the internet.

Right on Lily !

Yes, that looks like something Harriet Harman could have done when asked the first time.

She had a totally different role in the organisation than Harman did. And she was there earlier, probably at the time PIE joined. And she's more of a chance to prepare a carefully worded statement.

had more of a chance

Nonu can't you give up on the yellow windmills?