The Ageing Population Timebomb - Myth or Fact?

Mollie sample size 60,000.

Nonnie

Why do we blame politicians for this?

The first time I heard it used was by politicians in one of the speeches to either their party or the nation so maybe the media picked it up and ran with it - and ran with it and still run (as they tend to do - like little terriers with a bone!) with it even though it has been debunked as causal of the effect that they are claiming.

Why do we blame politicians for this? I thought it was the media. I think we will find that the politicians won't slate us in the next year or so as we are the ones who vote. [cynical emoticon]

I read about a year ago that the theory that we will continue to live longer and longer has been challenged and may not be true.

Aka, I remember the WRVS report coming out and I noted at the time how little it was written about in the media compared with all those reports that say we are a burden on the state.

aka I do realise it is a recognised methodology - I did statistics as part of my degree but I do question how from a smallish sample no matter how representative it is a great leap to suggest the 'natives' are not contributing as much as the 'immigrants' when there are many more of the 'natives' to be sampled.
always take any survey with a massive dose of incredulity. they did not appear to give the numbers questioned

My apologies Aka - I have only just spotted your link (with thanks to mollie65) and have had a quick look (but I would take most of what is written in the Huffington Post with a pinch of salt) so it would seem to come down to a contest of who is more accurate: Oxford or London.

To state that all immigrants are better educated than the local population is stretching things a bit too far - unless they have carried out mass testing (which, as far as I know, they haven't) how can they possibly know that? Or is it an endictment against our education system that it can be taken for granted?

Aka - I don't think I said it was your quote did I? You didn't state a source so if I had stated it was your comment, I would have been forgiven for doing so and without the source, we only have your word for its legitimacy.

My quote (that used the word 'notion',) was clearly stated as coming from Dr Anderson who is a senior research fellow at the Centre on Migration, Policy & Society at the University of Oxford - I'm pretty sure she will know what she's talking about

whatsgoingon - well said. You'd think from reading some of the posts on here that the white people of Britain wouldn't know how to work if their lives depended on it! Oh, and we all dodge tax apparently

On a personal level, I've known good and bad in several nationalities. I've found that where you are from makes very little difference to whether or not someone is a good contributor to society.

How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless child

They do say average life expectancy has gone up and is still going up, so there will be many more people reaching the age of 100 than there used to be.

Makes sense with the advances made in medical science and improvements in living standards.

I don't understand why we should take it personally and rage against it

and this though from 2007

there is this

A recognised methodology Mollie

Yes, it was interesting to read a report which looked at contribution rather that cost Flickety for a change.

I think there was a report somewhere about how much over 60s contribute to the economy. I'll see if I can find it.

jinglebells Very true. I think that about the expression "Rapidly ageing population"!
Well! I for one am not ageing any faster than my little grandson. 24hrs a day is the going rate!
It's being picky but that particular sound bite really annoys me.

To have an ageing population, wouldn't babies have to be born slightly older than new?

All these reports are always one sided, they look at what we cost, but they do not look at what we contribute. People over 60 now account for 17% of the population.

Putting aside our contributions, still, in income tax, and in kind, in the provision of free childcare, there is the money we spend on a day to day basis on food, fuel, clothes, and everything else we spend our income from acupuncture to visiting zoos (with or without GCs). This amounts to billions of £s. How many shops, service suppliers, transport services and leisure providers, not to mention carers and health workers, manufacturers of almost every kind of item would close down, putting as many as a million people out of work were it not for our spending power, no matter how small our income.

Almost every product and service includes 20% VAT, then there is the domino affect of the loss of taxes from those made unemployed if we were not busy spending our money.

did attempt to read the report aka but lots of very dodgy stats there and also the fact that CReAM uses FLS data which is based on 'A sample of households is selected at random from the Royal Mail's Postcode Address File.' - as always there are 'lies, d--n lies and statistics'

We are told to eat five fruit and veg, give up smoking, take regular exercise,etc. The upshot of all this does not appear to be a huge saving on the NHS; we still cannot afford it. Our life expectancy has increased which apparently also increases our drain on society. Not to worry, I suspect I shall be one to 'buck the trend'.

When I gave up smoking, one of the promises I made myself was that I would take it up again were I to reach the age of 70! In five and a half years I can have a cigarette.

However, we are straying from the OP.

'Children of immigrant families that I have taught' (fat morning fingers)

Yes Jess my experiences of friends from different cultures and children if immigrant families that i habe taught back that up.

Sorry Holly This was not MY report but one from a reputable source and backed up by statistics, not 'notions'. What a strange term to use. Guff is the word I used about UKIP's philosophy but I could have used much stronger terminology.

whatsgoingon we were talking about qualifucations and paying tax. These are hard statistical facts which owe nothing to urban myths or 'notions'.

This is a complete myth about immigrants working harder than British workers. The fact that we are all human means that we similar. Some workers regardless of their nationally will have a good work ethic. They will work hard, do the job to the best of their ability and pay their taxes.
Others will find every dodge they can to not do a days work.
I have had first hand of this experience over the last. 15 years or so.
The reason immigrants seem to work harder is because employers favour them above British employees, the reason being they are more likely to work for lower wages and put up with unreasonable working conditions.
As for them paying taxes to help the economy is of very little help as this is off set by the amount of money set back to their country to support their families. British workers would spend that money here, which would help to stimulate growth and perhaps create more jobs.
Also a lot of emigrants are hood winked into coming into this country illegally, promised a huge amount of money to work for cowardly faceless individuals and are then left to live in squalid accommodation and paid a fraction of what they are promised.

Yup immigrants not only pay their own taxes (the vast majority of them) but they contribute to the commercial life of the country and its economic growth. My DH was not born in the UK, nor does he have a UK passport. Paid a fair bit of tax over the years personally and kept a business going through hard times so that employees continued to pay tax as well as the business.
Strikes me that immigrants (and their kids) are far more likely to start businesses than those who come from traditional white backgrounds. Just been to Manchester and in certain areas there are many rows of small businesses, all started by immigrants. Curry mile for a start. I was in the Science and Industry museum there as well reading about a very successful entrepreneur in the clothing industry who started several well known brands including jeans made in the UK. Born in India.
Pity none of the politicians are on this agenda rather than trying to divide young from old. (while Jeremy Hunt then lectures us about looking after older relatives...)

Aka - you may want to read the link I've just put on the relevant thread about UKIP that addresses the bit you've just put. You'll find it does not agree with you regarding your 'fact' that immigrants work harder and are better qualified and pay more taxes than British worker

'There is little doubt that many immigrants are extremely diligent and highly motivated. However, Dr Bridget Anderson pointed out that notions of good attitude and work ethic are "highly subjective and potentially simplistic.'

Her comments are in full on the link given (Dr Anderson is a senior research fellow at the Centre on Migration, Policy & Society at the University of Oxford)

Hollydaze you haven't been listening to the guff given out by UKIP have you?

There is no 'problem' with immigrant workers per se and in fact many of them are better qualified and pay more taxes that average.

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