Our boy Jeremy again

I love the way some inspired people use celeb names for their pets with a twist.

Gnarles Barkley is a classic.

Language is a funny old thing isn't it? No one has any right to forbid the use of any terminology at all - unless it contravenes the laws of the land, for example using words which are likely to cause harassment alarm and distress to those who hear it. Sections 4 & 5 of the Public Order Act. But there are many words which, whilst being legal, are unnecessary at best and at worst can be seen to deliberately cause upset to the hearer or reader.

For example, I find the description of women as 'ho's' deeply unpleasant. I dislike the use of the term 'religiacs' and some object to the term 'militant atheist'. We all have a right to use these terms, but in the interests of mutual respect and not wishing to alienate those whose views one might disagree with, it seems to me to better to avoid these usages and conduct debate in mutually respectful terms.

Yes, anyone can be offensive, and lots of people can be offended, sometimes with little cause, but if a person really wants to state their point of view and achieve some meeting of minds, then avoiding inflammatory language would seem to be wise.

I love Top Gear. It hasn't been a programme about cars for years, it's just three blokes messing around. I heard some one describe it as today's version of Last of the Summer Wine - three aging men building weird machines.
Really can't see the BBC dropping their biggest money spinner.

It's possible to be a racist without using any inflammatory language and it's possible to be a non-racist "mischievously" – Okwonga used that expression; I pinched it from him. James May knows Clarkson better than any of us and he says Clarkson isn't a racist. I believe him.

It keeps him in the news.
There is no such thing as bad publicity so they say.

It's easier to think of JC's remarks as just a hit of "harmless fun" when you aren't a member of the group that is the subject of his "witticisms". Not many people enjoy being portrayed as a crude stereotype rather than as a person.

KatyK was upset by JC's views about Birmingham, and many of us would not appreciate the places where we live being ridiculed. How much more upsetting must it be to have your nationality or ethnicity treated as a source of amusement.

Having put my boot in I watched TG tonight and quite enjoyed it. Fickle-I-am!

Seems to me the distinction people aren't making is the same as the distinction some people don't make between personal and general remarks on gransnet and then complain because one remark is deleted and another isn't.

On a general level and using stereotypes, Clarkson says quite a few things that can be construed as too close for comfort. On a personal and individual level he doesn't do that (except towards his workmates). If you actually watch the programmes filmed in other countries, you will see that all three of them are polite to the people they meet even if Clarkson does joke about the national stereotypes of wherever they are.

A lot of comedians do the same thing, including 'nice' comedians like Sandi Toksvig. She is also happy to have jokes made about the stereotypical Dane.

But the fact remains that this was never meant to be broadcast! it was discarded and the scene re-shot. Someone with an axe to grind found this two year old clip and sent it to the Daily Mirror. I wonder how much they were paid?

Exactly, ceesnan, as you and I have pointed out. Whoever aired the footage did it just to be spiteful. No-one has to like Clarkson or what he does and as a human being he deserves the same respect as they expect for themselves.

Muck-raking is just as shameful, if not more so, than anything he's been accused of.

He does harm by his continual mocking of health and safety. Motorists have accidents, pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists get killed - that's why there are speed limits and other rules. He practically led a campaign against speed cameras.

Isn't he 'accused' of using racist language?

I wonder what the distinction is between muck-racking and whistle blowing??

I find TG and it's crew rather boring and repetative now. Been around for too long.
I don't see why all the fuss about yet another throwaway bad word which was leaked, not apparently broadcast in the programme. If you work on TG you know you're working with juvenile morons who consider foul language and sexist, racist, ageist remarks to be just banter which they need to give the programme a bit of zazz. So why was it leaked? Did the 'leakee' think they'd be paid vast sums?
And why is ok for a black rapper to use and record the word slopes? Surely it's racist? (I had to look up slopes - and bellend. It seems there's a whole lot of new bad words for us to learn.)

He mocks H&S in words, as do plenty of other people, often with justice, but he does not break any safety rules when doing normal driving on normal roads. Driving over the speed limit on roads that have been cleared for the purpose of car testing is not the same as doing that in normal traffic.

Visiting drivers to TG even wear a helmet in the reasonably priced car that they drive around the airfield track.

He mocks speed cameras. You can call that "practically a campaign" but did it work? If not, why worry? It's not wrong to challenge authority when you think authority has got something wrong. No, I don't agree with him about speed cameras but that's beside the point. He's allowed to challenge what he sees as silly rules.

Your judgement that "he does harm" by this is only your opinion, jess. Sorry, I'll rephrase that: on what evidence is your statement that he does harm by challenging certain rules based?

Nfk, I agree about the repetitive, formulaic approach of the programme. Sometimes I ask MrB to watch it on his computer wearing headphones so that I don't have to watch or listen.

Well, I've just waded through this thread and almost wish I hadn't bothered. Thanks to Eloethan, night owl, Aka and others who made it worth reading. What's going on with gransnet this week?

I can't remember who posted on this thread that it's like going back to the 1950's, but I agree with that comment. JC thrives on attention, and makes comments he knows will ensure he gets it. The use of the N word is just unacceptable, as was his use of the term 'slope' recently. I accept that many of the posters on this thread will disagree with me. Are there any black, dual heritage, asian, chinese or jewish contributors to GN? If there are, I imagine they keep a low profile given the casual racism displayed on threads like this.

Nightowl - it was you who mentioned the 1950's. Thanks for that. I'm off to iron my crimplene trousers and perm my hair now, after which I'll be outraged that a Polish family have moved in up the road, and that half the new staff in our local supermarket at African asylum seekers.

Iam

I think I should point out, however, that the beauty of crimplene trousers is that they need no ironing. Not that I would be one to stop you if you find fulfilment there - I know my mum ironed everything including socks and towels. However, I prefer to spend the time I save ironing my pinnies.

Thanks to all those who reassured me by their posts that it wasn't just me shaking my head in disbelief at some of the views expressed.

're thatbags post yesterday at 21.44: And I believe James May when he says JC is a d*ckhead.

I didn't understand the reference to the 1950s even though it followed my question about whether saying it's OK for black people to use a word but not OK for non-black people to use the same word (presumably in the same way and context as the black people are using it) is not racist also.

HOW the word is used also matters. Clearly the word nigger can be used in a non-offensive way by black people. A white person in their midst using the same word in the same way is not being a racist. If the colours of skin/race/whatever were reversed the same would apply. Racism doesn't only work one way.

gknot, I believe him too. I also think Clarkson acts like a dickhead. As do the other two, though to a lesser extent. Sometimes it's funny. Sometimes it's tiresome.

I think some of the posts were reminiscences of the 1950s, that is why it felt like that. Certainly my memories of my golly doll were and I remember him fondly. I was about 6 when I had him and can't remember when he disappeared. I knew no-one of ethnic origin in thise days but since then have made friends with people of different races, colours and creeds.

1950s Britain was a different country and no-one on here is saying it was better or worse.
I think the word in question was more a symbol of hatred in America and I'm sure most posters on here will remember the race riots over there with absolute horror and will also remember Martin Luther King's poignant and unforgettable speech.
I believe the word was used in Britain more as a description of colour than anything else, I certainly don't remember it being used as a racist slur when I was growing up in the UK.
Perhaps others have different experiences

I didn't realise this Clarke incident was from 2 years ago, he rectified it immediately apparently, and this sounds like media muck-raking for sensational headlines. As I understand it, he didn't shout it at anyone in an insulting fashion.
Sad that people must spend their lives trawling through stuff like this to make money.

Should I throw my two 1940s Noddy books in the bin? I obviously should not get them out of the attic to read them to the GC - or should I, so that it will provoke a discussion on racism with a 5 year old?

Also a discussion about Grandad's rather large sticky-out ears which he got teased about when he was growing up.

As an exmple of what I was/am trying to say, here's a true story that illustrates my point. A young black man (BM) is training to be a primary school teacher in the UK. A middle-aged white man (WM) is the head of the education department and part of his job is to assess student teachers as being competent or not to become qualified teachers, i.e. to pass or fail their work.

BM's teaching practice and coursework were deemed by the assessor not yet competent enough for him to achieve a pass. BM accused WM racism for giving his work a fail. WM told BM that no, he, BM, was the racist for assuming on no evidence that WM would give him a fail for anything other than inadequate work.

PS thanks for your explanation, roseq