Scotland YES or NO

Another excellent article by Suzanne Moore.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/10/-sp-the-scottish-independence-debate-has-given-politicians-what-they-say-they-want-engagement

It's aparently not only RBS, Standard Life et al who are preparing to flee South if it's a Yes result. According to Yahoo this morning, "Nessie" has (already) been spotted in Lake Windermere.
Is nothing sacred?

Chin up, Jane10' it'll soon be over and normality will return (I hope!)

Glad to hear its not just me who`s finding the anti NO lobby concerning. If I had realised that I had to provide documentary evidence of this I would have photographed some the graffiti`d NO posters I`ve seen! Eg near Dundee the graffiti of choice seems to be spray painting the word "how" before the NO. As a wee translation this means "Why not" in Scots. Other versions are (even) less literary and just consist of spraying all over the signs.
Interestingly, recently there`s been one lot of brave people flying a Union Jack in Edinburgh but its out of their top flat window! I was very cheered by it.
I absolutely agree that united we stand divided we fall but sadly this campaign has fragmented us all and I cant see how we can be united again unless there is an absolute landslide NO vote.

Papaoscar, there is a petition to get your MP to sign up to a recall for MPs who do not do their job properly. Apparently the expenses problem is worse now than it was in 2oo9.
The government want to get a watered down version through. Strange it was published yesterday, when it was easy to miss in the Scotland debate. Me cynical?
Another strange thing that they are trying to get passed is an agreement that US homeland security staff could be at UK airports to question those who want to go to the US. They have requested to do it in five EU countries and the only one to want it is Britain.

If you want a laugh about the TTIP, papaoscar, read this letter from de Grucht.

trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2014/september/tradoc_152773.pdf

I am reading a very interesting book at the moment called "Enough is Enough". Scotland only gets one mention, where it says that the GDP has increased. It is counted in with the UK for all the other information.
If Scotland does go independent, presumably all these people who write books about the UK will have to split the figures, so we can find out if Scotland is a more egalitarian society than the rest of the UK.

Yes, Dj , the rot at the heart of our system seems to get worse and worse across all the political parties. Privatisation, commercialism and profiteering whether overt or sneakily done, are creeping in everywhere yet the standards of public service are dropping. At some point the public are going to say - Stop, we 've had enough of all this nonsense! - but we're not there yet. The recent solitary death of the young, sick, unemployed, diabetic former soldier is a terrible indictment of the UK's descent into callousness. I fear that fragmenting the UK will only accelerate the process. Perhaps I am wrong, who knows.

You obviously read the TTIP problem differently, papa.
The way I see it, if Scotland votes No it will have to go along with the UK.
All the main parties want the TTIP to go ahead, and with the NHS included, although they pretend that the NHS will be safe. Not true. Any NHS that has not begun to go private will be exempt but as our NHS has already gone partly private and will be more so by the next election, the NHS will be under the TTIP.

At least if they vote Yes, they stand a chance of avoiding the TTIP because so many European groups are against it. The European parliament has a much larger green contingency than we have.

That's how I see things anyway.

There is a very worrying article in today's Guardian, about Serco and G4S contracts.
Apparently the MoJ has put clauses in contracts that mean that any company that has probation contracts is guaranteed their profits over the next ten years, even if the next government does not think they are value for money. Taxpayers will have to pay £300-400m if the controversial contracts are cancelled. Serco and G4S were not supposed to get contracts as they are being investigated by the SFO. The Labour Party opposes privatisation of the probation service, but they are going to be tied in by this government if they win the next election.

Can you see the parallels with the TTIP?

Now read 'em both, thanks, Dj, very interesting indeed. The MySociety analysis of Westminster voting patterns excluding Scottish MPs raises some interesting conclusions about current SNP claims re education charges and NHS privatisation. And the current EU/TTIP trade dispute business is a real shocker but glad to read it is being resisted, despite the supine attitude of Westminster. Sadly, in or out of the EU, tariff and trade wars always favour the big players, which suggests its better for the UK to stick together, however uncomfortable that might be. Mr Juncker's activities at the EU will have to be very closely monitored.

I have Googled "brick window Scottish referendum" *Baubles" but there are no results.

Googling "Scottish referendum egg" gets a lot, but they are all for the same incident.

"Scottish referendum car vandalised " gets hits for vandalism by both sides. Several posters have reported anti-no vandalism, so I will post a couple of links to anti-no cases. This is not because I don't believe that No campaigners have never been vandalised, it is just showing that honours are equal for mindless violence, that it is not confined to yes supporters, and that those perpetrating it are probably generally violent without any need for a cause.
www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/dundee/driver-has-no-doubt-car-tyres-were-burst-because-of-her-yes-scotland-stickers-1.533929
and
www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/yes-campaign-shop-covered-in-nazi-vandalism-1-3536766

There were also lots of links to car vandalism in towns in England which were nothing to do with yes/no campaigning - just for the joy of vandalism.

And here is a nice one - newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8987-labour-mp-admits-vandalism-was-in-fact-stickers

Here here gollyg, It is Salmonds' dream to go down in history.

Curious to know where these towns are, Baubles. I am so pleased to hear that there are places in Scotland where people feel they can express their views. I have seen no stickers for Better Together anywhere in my travels round Edinburgh. (Apart from one neighbour who finally put a poster in her window on Sunday. What drove her to it was her anger that the Yes campaign was telling children to phone their Grannie and persuade them to vote "Yes"!)

In our street two houses have "yes" stickers. Until my neighbour put up a "no" sticker, there were no no's whatsoever. But I know from chatting to neighbours that virtually all of them are planning to vote no.

On Monday I am off to see a friend in Lanark so I will look out for all the no stickers there...

It seems very localised. The media report things so that it seems it goes on everywhere - I suppose there is no news value in "Nothing happened today" or "No more eggs thrown"

Today whilst out and about in a couple of neighbouring towns I paid particular attention to the stickers and flags in windows and various other places. I can honestly say that I wasn't aware of a lack of 'No' stickers and there were a good few Union flags flying too.

I'm still unaware of bricks being put through windows.

Sorry I hope my post didn't make me sound as though I have always been unhappy living here in Scotland. On the contrary, apart from the intermittent remarks about my Englishness or White settler, hurtful at the time but soon shaken off. Doesn't make it right though. I have been here for 47 years. Made loads of friends and enjoyed the way of life to the full. And yes, have been shown many acts of kindness and warmth from my Scottish friends and neighbours. I have lived in many places in Scotland and currently live in the Highlands. Best place of all for warmth, humour and kindness is Glasgow.
I'm am very sad that the referendum has unleashed bad feeling.

On holiday in Islay once, we shared our table with an Londoner who had never been to Scotland, and was there because he had read a glowing report of the vast clean beaches. When he heard that we were from Edinburgh he generously informed us that it was a great little town that was going to go places.

We refrained from giving him a detailed history of Edinburgh's part in the enlightenment of the 18th Century, her central role in the training of generations of doctors and surgeons, her reputation as a financial, literary, and legal centre, and as the first city in the country with gutters on each side of the main street instead of down the middle, but we did not appreciate his condescension. (He left before his holiday was up because the perfect and deserted beaches had no facilities or entertainment)

I can't imagine that those English GNers who have settled in Scotland have ever been patronising to the Scots, but there are English here who seem to be slumming it among the natives. These are the ones who find the Scots "chipper" and who discover friction in their dealings with them.

I have lived in Scotland since 1957. I didn't want to come - I had to leave schoolfriends and start again from scratch, but my father's work made it impossible not to.

But at my new school I made a new lot of friends. No-one victimised me for being English. My little brother was terrorised by one boy - but that little X****X terrorised the rest of the quieter boys in his class, particularly if they were less stupid than him (and his mother treated her neighbours the same)

Since then I have lived in various places in Scotland, and in various kinds of housing - local authority council house, student accomodation with 59 other girls, mostly from different parts of Scotland, tiny new-build bungalow on a new estate, bigger bungalow in "leafy suburbia". No-one has ever treated me as though they hated me for being English.

Well said, Elegran, reminding us that the result of the referendum confers no automatic right to independence, it is purely informative. It's a great pity that Mr. Salmond and his cronies have not taken that on board. It is ridiculous for the SNP to strut about as though they are already in power and, as has been pointed out, their smirking sectarian attitudes are doing enormous damage to Anglo-Scottish relations. They seem to have overlooked the fact that they would have to negotiate with the very Westminster politicians they loathe. Heaven help those negotiations!

As regards local feelings, I do hope that the naked anti-English attitudes reported by some members are not representative of Scotland as a whole. As regards England I haven't noted much anti-Scottish feeling until fairly recently. Now, egged on no doubt by media spin, I do detect an increase in the view that if the Scots really want to leave the UK then good riddance to them, but that they'll leave with nothing more than their britches.

Now, nobody sensible wants to see a repetition of the appalling Irish separation agonies, and we should never forget that history has the dreadful habit of repeating itself if allowed to do so. The veneer of civility is extremely thin. So perhaps we should all learn to mind our p's and q's a bit more. Mr and M/s S please take note!

My husband, aka MacSporran and I [said in queen-like manner] are English. We moved to Scotland eleven years ago. From day one we were made to feel "at home" and included in all the village activities and celebrations. Not once have we encountered anything other than kindness. It was the Scots who helped us to find a plot on which to build our home. It was the Scots who came to our assistance on occasions when we needed it. It was a Scot who gave me the blood that I required when I needed a transfusion. It was a Scottish cat that came in from the forest and adopted us. Some of our neighbours and friends will vote Yes. Others No thanks. I shall vote No thanks. I have no doubt that our village will remain a close and tolerant community whatever the outcome.

Thank you Dodiegate, I will vote and it will be no, it's so wrong that we should be intimidated so much as to have to hide our true feelings.

Please vote, Thistledoo. You and I have lived and worked here far longer than many people born in Scotland and have every right to vote. My parents both lived well into their nineties so I might have another 30 years in Scotland. Also I have many friends who were born in Scotland who are "no" supporters. They don't have a "dream of independence". It is really important that everyone votes so that the result is as accurate as possible. (Sorry if I sound as if I am nagging but I feel really strongly about the way the "Yes" side is intimidating people!)

I was told quite forcefully that I was 'gullible' (stupid?!) for believing and sympathising with Jane10, which had the probably desired effect, of shutting me up. From recent posts it would appear that she had a point and that I wasn't so easily fooled as was suggested.

Good post Dodiegate, I have also lived in bonnie Scotland for 40 odd years. I have encountered many nasty remarks from folk who think I'm English, and it's not in good humour either. I was referred to as the English wifey, I'm actually Welsh. Married to a Sscot, had my children here and have contributed to my community and worked in the nhs all my working life. Both my children have experienced racist remarks both at school and in their work. It's so sad. I will be voting no but keep really quiet about it for fear of evoking anger from friends and people I meet. I would hate to think that my vote and my opinion would in any way spoil this dream of independence for the people of Scotland, and have even considered not voting at all.
Sir Winston Churchill once said, and perhaps it would be good to remember his wise words. UNITED WE STAND. DIVIDED WE FALL.

In Ireland the Troubles were a result of their wish for more political say being ignored and their protests put down forcefully. There is no evidence that Scotland would go the way of Ireland - though if everyone talks up the bits that have happened, the mindless erks who committed them will take that as encouragement to get their fifteen minutes of fame as "rebels"

Whatever the result, I hope that it is a big enough majority to be definitive.